If Phoenix is KO-d during battle but at the end of the battle she no longer meets KO conditions is she still discarded?
thats a good question
Quote from: Palatinus on April 27, 2012, 09:14:45 AM
If Phoenix is KO-d during battle but at the end of the battle she no longer meets KO conditions is she still discarded?
IMO, I would say No. If she no longer meets the conditions than she would no longer be KO'd.
Sorry to disappoint, but yes she is.
Healing her and removing the KO condition doesn't change the fact that she was KO'd.
Same goes for the Hand if you have Kirigi in play... and other characters who have similar cards.
I don't agree with it, but there you have it.
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on April 27, 2012, 09:35:17 AM
Sorry to disappoint, but yes she is.
Healing her and removing the KO condition doesn't change the fact that she was KO'd.
Same goes for the Hand if you have Kirigi in play... and other characters who have similar cards.
I don't agree with it, but there you have it.
-BBH
Is that written anywhere? Just out of curiousity.
written somewhere
now that i think about it
Quote from: steve2275 on April 27, 2012, 10:05:18 AM
written somewhere
now that i think about it
WOW! That really helps....
Thanks.
I didn't find anything in the meta-rules regarding the LG specials and I don't think the metas apply to IA's anyway. So I don't know where something like that would be written unless it's in the tournament guide.
Quote from: Palatinus on April 27, 2012, 10:32:57 AM
I didn't find anything in the meta-rules regarding the LG specials and I don't think the metas apply to IA's anyway. So I don't know where something like that would be written unless it's in the tournament guide.
That's what I was wondering. And I know when I play I'm so tired of pulling out every little manual so Phoenix probably won't be dead in my home games if someone plays it.
http://overpower.ca/wiki/LG
LG
The Hand's Kirigi
Offensive Yes
Defensive No
Duration Game
This card must be played on your turn and may not accompany an attack. It must be played before the character is KO'd and cannot be played in response to an attack that KO's the character. The effect of the card takes placed later. Once the character has been KO'd, the character may continue to attack, play specials, be attacked, and all other actions it would normally be allowed to make if not KO'd. If negated after the character has been KO'd then the character must immediately be treated as if it were KO'd.
Meta Rules
Meta #63 Specials which affect a Character's ability to be K.O.'d or how they can perform after they have been K.O.'d cannot be played defensively unless another part of the Special grants a defensive bonus/ability.
Meta #73 Specials which have a lasting duration remain in play and on the table. The Special card should be positioned next to the Character in a manner in which it is obvious that it is not Placed.
Meta #90 Specials which alter a Character's abilities/skills that have a lasting duration are discarded when the Character is K.O.'d. Should the Character be resurrected or brought back into play later in the game, the discarded Special would not be in effect. Specials with a lasting duration that do not alter a Character (but affect the opponent or a teammate(s), etc.) remain in play after the Character playing the Special has been K.O.'d.
Meta #104 If a Character is K.O.'d but through a Special or an Event is permitted to continue to play during the battle, then the Character does not discard placed cards, or return hits from permanent record, etc. until after the battle is over (and the K.O. takes effect).
Category: Special cards
Quote from: steve2275 on April 27, 2012, 11:05:03 AM
http://overpower.ca/wiki/LG
LG
The Hand's Kirigi
Offensive Yes
Defensive No
Duration Game
This card must be played on your turn and may not accompany an attack. It must be played before the character is KO'd and cannot be played in response to an attack that KO's the character. The effect of the card takes placed later. Once the character has been KO'd, the character may continue to attack, play specials, be attacked, and all other actions it would normally be allowed to make if not KO'd. If negated after the character has been KO'd then the character must immediately be treated as if it were KO'd.
Meta Rules
Meta #63 Specials which affect a Character's ability to be K.O.'d or how they can perform after they have been K.O.'d cannot be played defensively unless another part of the Special grants a defensive bonus/ability.
Meta #73 Specials which have a lasting duration remain in play and on the table. The Special card should be positioned next to the Character in a manner in which it is obvious that it is not Placed.
Meta #90 Specials which alter a Character's abilities/skills that have a lasting duration are discarded when the Character is K.O.'d. Should the Character be resurrected or brought back into play later in the game, the discarded Special would not be in effect. Specials with a lasting duration that do not alter a Character (but affect the opponent or a teammate(s), etc.) remain in play after the Character playing the Special has been K.O.'d.
Meta #104 If a Character is K.O.'d but through a Special or an Event is permitted to continue to play during the battle, then the Character does not discard placed cards, or return hits from permanent record, etc. until after the battle is over (and the K.O. takes effect).
Category: Special cards
First, none of those specifically state an answer to the question that Palatinus brought up and second why did you not try to make an educated response like this the first time - it is more appreciated than the "written somewhere" response.
I think Meta #104 actually ties into Inherants too. Ultimately, if a character is KO'd, the only thing that can undo the KO would be an effect such as from the event Mad God Raises Dead (I think that's the one I'm thinking of.) Phoenix's inherant states that in the round in which she is KO'd she's not discarded until the end of the battle. Once she's been KO'd, nothing you do will "undo" the KOing, so at the end of the round, she still gets tossed. I guess if you were to sacrifice Morph to his Substitute Death, you could "undo" her KO, but I think you'd have to play Sub Death in a subsequent round. Not really sure on that particular scenario.
Quote from: Demacus on April 27, 2012, 11:47:43 AM
I think Meta #104 actually ties into Inherants too. Ultimately, if a character is KO'd, the only thing that can undo the KO would be an effect such as from the event Mad God Raises Dead (I think that's the one I'm thinking of.) Phoenix's inherant states that in the round in which she is KO'd she's not discarded until the end of the battle. Once she's been KO'd, nothing you do will "undo" the KOing, so at the end of the round, she still gets tossed. I guess if you were to sacrifice Morph to his Substitute Death, you could "undo" her KO, but I think you'd have to play Sub Death in a subsequent round. Not really sure on that particular scenario.
But so far, none of those specifically say that if you were to reverse (remove permanent/current battle) damage, etc that phoenix wouldn't actually be dead anymore.....I do get where you're coming from and I fully understand the thought process.
If anything Meta 104 implies the opposite. See where it says "(and the K.O. takes effect)" implying that it might not happen even after being initiated.
Quote from: Palatinus on April 27, 2012, 04:14:51 PM
If anything Meta 104 implies the opposite. See where it says "(and the K.O. takes effect)" implying that it might not happen even after being initiated.
Maybe there is something on top of the Meta that rules the way BBH is saying - like a tournament guide, like you said earlier.....but I agree 100% it does not state that you cannot keep her if you reverse her death......
Quote from: Jesse on April 27, 2012, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Palatinus on April 27, 2012, 04:14:51 PM
If anything Meta 104 implies the opposite. See where it says "(and the K.O. takes effect)" implying that it might not happen even after being initiated.
Maybe there is something on top of the Meta that rules the way BBH is saying - like a tournament guide, like you said earlier.....but I agree 100% it does not state that you cannot keep her if you reverse her death......
Right, and what if the killing blow were a special? If you negated that offensively after it happened, doesn't negating it mean it never happened?
Quote from: Palatinus on April 27, 2012, 04:34:35 PM
Right, and what if the killing blow were a special? If you negated that offensively after it happened, doesn't negating it mean it never happened?
You would think so - but I've been wrong before! ;)
http://overpower.ca/wiki/Inherent_ability#The_Fight_Duration_Inherent (http://overpower.ca/wiki/Inherent_ability#The_Fight_Duration_Inherent)
bamf!
128 ;)
Quote from: bamf! on April 27, 2012, 10:33:53 PM
http://overpower.ca/wiki/Inherent_ability#The_Fight_Duration_Inherent (http://overpower.ca/wiki/Inherent_ability#The_Fight_Duration_Inherent)
bamf!
copied from
http://overpower.ca/pages/meta.php
i knew it was written somewhere :P
Quote from: steve2275 on April 28, 2012, 08:20:43 AM
Quote from: bamf! on April 27, 2012, 10:33:53 PM
http://overpower.ca/wiki/Inherent_ability#The_Fight_Duration_Inherent (http://overpower.ca/wiki/Inherent_ability#The_Fight_Duration_Inherent)
bamf!
copied from
http://overpower.ca/pages/meta.php
i knew it was written somewhere :P
Yeah but saying "Its written somewhere is a blanket crap answer and is no help to anyone.
Thanks bamf!
viva la bamf
Thank you Bamf!
New thought or question on this topic.
What if phoenix was cumulative or spectrum KO'd and through a battlesite played a CG or EK special before the battle was over?
Similarly, if the 'Alien Creatures Rampages' event is in play and a character is KO'd but plays one of those specials before the end of battle would that 'save' them? They are not removing a hit but changing their KO conditions, albeit after KO.
There is nothing that allows a KO to be undone. One you meet the conditions to KO, the grim reaper is holding their hand and either drags them away or waits for their inherent. He doesn't go away.
Quote from: Jack on October 16, 2013, 03:15:15 PM
There is nothing that allows a KO to be undone. Once you meet the conditions to KO, the grim reaper is holding their hand and either drags them away or waits for their inherent. He doesn't go away.
right, the KO status cannot be "undone," but there are a few ways to revive someone. the cards that allow this, though, are pretty clear and have nothing (directly, anyway) to do with Phoenix's I.A. or the Event mentioned.