Phoenix KO

[Palatinus]

If Phoenix is KO-d during battle but at the end of the battle she no longer meets KO conditions is she still discarded?

[steve2275]

thats a good question

[Jesse]

If Phoenix is KO-d during battle but at the end of the battle she no longer meets KO conditions is she still discarded?

IMO, I would say No. If she no longer meets the conditions than she would no longer be KO'd.

[BigBadHarve]

Sorry to disappoint, but yes she is.

Healing her and removing the KO condition doesn't change the fact that she was KO'd.

Same goes for the Hand if you have Kirigi in play... and other characters who have similar cards.

I don't agree with it, but there you have it.

-BBH

[Jesse]

Sorry to disappoint, but yes she is.

Healing her and removing the KO condition doesn't change the fact that she was KO'd.

Same goes for the Hand if you have Kirigi in play... and other characters who have similar cards.

I don't agree with it, but there you have it.

-BBH

Is that written anywhere? Just out of curiousity.

[steve2275]

written somewhere
now that i think about it

[Jesse]

written somewhere
now that i think about it

WOW! That really helps....Thanks.

[Palatinus]

I didn't find anything in the meta-rules regarding the LG specials and I don't think the metas apply to IA's anyway.  So I don't know where something like that would be written unless it's in the tournament guide.

[Jesse]

I didn't find anything in the meta-rules regarding the LG specials and I don't think the metas apply to IA's anyway.  So I don't know where something like that would be written unless it's in the tournament guide.

That's what I was wondering. And I know when I play I'm so tired of pulling out every little manual so Phoenix probably won't be dead in my home games if someone plays it.

[steve2275]

http://overpower.ca/wiki/LG

LG

The Hand's Kirigi
Offensive    Yes
Defensive    No
Duration    Game
This card must be played on your turn and may not accompany an attack. It must be played before the character is KO'd and cannot be played in response to an attack that KO's the character. The effect of the card takes placed later. Once the character has been KO'd, the character may continue to attack, play specials, be attacked, and all other actions it would normally be allowed to make if not KO'd. If negated after the character has been KO'd then the character must immediately be treated as if it were KO'd.
Meta Rules

Meta #63 Specials which affect a Character's ability to be K.O.'d or how they can perform after they have been K.O.'d cannot be played defensively unless another part of the Special grants a defensive bonus/ability.
Meta #73 Specials which have a lasting duration remain in play and on the table. The Special card should be positioned next to the Character in a manner in which it is obvious that it is not Placed.
Meta #90 Specials which alter a Character's abilities/skills that have a lasting duration are discarded when the Character is K.O.'d. Should the Character be resurrected or brought back into play later in the game, the discarded Special would not be in effect. Specials with a lasting duration that do not alter a Character (but affect the opponent or a teammate(s), etc.) remain in play after the Character playing the Special has been K.O.'d.
Meta #104 If a Character is K.O.'d but through a Special or an Event is permitted to continue to play during the battle, then the Character does not discard placed cards, or return hits from permanent record, etc. until after the battle is over (and the K.O. takes effect).
Category: Special cards

[Jesse]

http://overpower.ca/wiki/LG

LG

The Hand's Kirigi
Offensive    Yes
Defensive    No
Duration    Game
This card must be played on your turn and may not accompany an attack. It must be played before the character is KO'd and cannot be played in response to an attack that KO's the character. The effect of the card takes placed later. Once the character has been KO'd, the character may continue to attack, play specials, be attacked, and all other actions it would normally be allowed to make if not KO'd. If negated after the character has been KO'd then the character must immediately be treated as if it were KO'd.
Meta Rules

Meta #63 Specials which affect a Character's ability to be K.O.'d or how they can perform after they have been K.O.'d cannot be played defensively unless another part of the Special grants a defensive bonus/ability.
Meta #73 Specials which have a lasting duration remain in play and on the table. The Special card should be positioned next to the Character in a manner in which it is obvious that it is not Placed.
Meta #90 Specials which alter a Character's abilities/skills that have a lasting duration are discarded when the Character is K.O.'d. Should the Character be resurrected or brought back into play later in the game, the discarded Special would not be in effect. Specials with a lasting duration that do not alter a Character (but affect the opponent or a teammate(s), etc.) remain in play after the Character playing the Special has been K.O.'d.
Meta #104 If a Character is K.O.'d but through a Special or an Event is permitted to continue to play during the battle, then the Character does not discard placed cards, or return hits from permanent record, etc. until after the battle is over (and the K.O. takes effect).
Category: Special cards

First, none of those specifically state an answer to the question that Palatinus brought up and second why did you not try to make an educated response like this the first time - it is more appreciated than the "written somewhere" response.

[Demacus]

I think Meta #104 actually ties into Inherants too. Ultimately, if a character is KO'd, the only thing that can undo the KO would be an effect such as from the event Mad God Raises Dead (I think that's the one I'm thinking of.)  Phoenix's inherant states that in the round in which she is KO'd she's not discarded until the end of the battle.  Once she's been KO'd, nothing you do will "undo" the KOing, so at the end of the round, she still gets tossed.  I guess if you were to sacrifice Morph to his Substitute Death, you could "undo" her KO, but I think you'd have to play Sub Death in a subsequent round.  Not really sure on that particular scenario.

[Jesse]

I think Meta #104 actually ties into Inherants too. Ultimately, if a character is KO'd, the only thing that can undo the KO would be an effect such as from the event Mad God Raises Dead (I think that's the one I'm thinking of.)  Phoenix's inherant states that in the round in which she is KO'd she's not discarded until the end of the battle.  Once she's been KO'd, nothing you do will "undo" the KOing, so at the end of the round, she still gets tossed.  I guess if you were to sacrifice Morph to his Substitute Death, you could "undo" her KO, but I think you'd have to play Sub Death in a subsequent round.  Not really sure on that particular scenario.

But so far, none of those specifically say that if you were to reverse (remove permanent/current battle) damage, etc that phoenix wouldn't actually be dead anymore.....I do get where you're coming from and I fully understand the thought process.

[Palatinus]

If anything Meta 104 implies the opposite.  See where it says "(and the K.O. takes effect)" implying that it might not happen even after being initiated.

[Jesse]

If anything Meta 104 implies the opposite.  See where it says "(and the K.O. takes effect)" implying that it might not happen even after being initiated.

Maybe there is something on top of the Meta that rules the way BBH is saying - like a tournament guide, like you said earlier.....but I agree 100% it does not state that you cannot keep her if you reverse her death......