Peace Bridge Tournament Ruling Question

[steve2275]

http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1299.png
theres the card in question
you decide
visual clarity jack

for remainder of game fighting icons count for venture total (and successful attacks are hits that determine how venture is determined)
doesnt sound that hard to understand
sorry im late with my reasoning
but yeah thats why im here jack
but you guys go ahead and talk more about erratta and and other things that are not on the card

[Jack]

http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1299.png
theres the card in question
you decide

Why are you even posting? What do you think the other 13 replies have been about?

[gameplan.exe]

So it would probably be something like:

For remainder of game, hits from Current Battle with a Fighting icon on Opponent's Battlesite are added to Spider-Woman's Teams' Venture total. May be played from Reserve.

That removes one of the weird mechanics, the other one remains.

...

Maybe..

For remainder of game, at the end of each battle, Spider-Woman's Team may remove hits with a Fighting icon on Opponent's Battlesite. Hits are added to Venture total for that battle. May be played from Reserve.

First, I agree that the "shadow" icons shouldn't matter, relative to "hits" whether that's for the Spider Woman card or for cards that Remove hits (like Sentinel's EA or Colossus' ET).

Second, I agree that the first re-wording of this Special (an errata, like as it was called) would be a good move. Referring to the "Successful hits" as opposed to the "attacks" would clear up the issue, as long as my first point is true (that "hits" lose their "shadows"). But also, what's the second "weird" mechanic you mean, Jack?

Third, (and maybe I'm misunderstanding this still), but I wouldn't want this card to change into a "Remove" of any kind, because I definitely want these hits to eventually KO the Battlesite, as well. Especially if I'm using this card as my OPD from a Battlesite for a Fighting team.

[Jack]

The second mechanic would be the separation of current and permanent hits on the Battlesite.

[gameplan.exe]

The second mechanic would be the separation of current and permanent hits on the Battlesite.

Are you implying that, playing it as written (with the word "attacks" as opposed to "Hits"), the card would make those attacks count toward Venture, perpetually? i.e., if I landed Longshot's One In A Million ( ) then I would get a "+3" to my Venture total every Battle, not just the Battle that the attack was successful?
...
it seems, to me at least, that the issue of current/permanent hits is resolved in your revision:
"For remainder of game, hits from Current Battle with a Fighting icon on Opponent's Battlesite are added to Spider-Woman's Teams' Venture total. May be played from Reserve."

[Jack]

The intent was to only allow hits from current battle to be counted toward the venture.

Going through the revisions of the card's wording:

Spider-Woman's Team's attacks with a Fighting icon made against Opponent's Battlesite count towards Venture total for remainder of game.  May be played from Reserve.

Spider-Woman's Team's successful attacks with a Fighting icon made against Opponent's Battlesite count towards Venture total for remainder of game. May be played from Reserve.

For remainder of game, Spider-Woman's Team's successful attacks with a Fighting icon made against Opponent's Battlesite count toward Venture total. May be played from Reserve.

For remainder of game, hits from Current Battle with a Fighting icon on Opponent's Battlesite are added to Spider-Woman's Teams' Venture total. May be played from Reserve.

From #1 to #2 (which was Nick's suggestion), it added successful attacks to the card. (They are more commonly known as hits.)

From #2 to #3, BBH and I had a discussion before the prints were made on the card and any abuses. We felt that moving FROG to the beginning of the card removes any confusion as to whether or not attacks with Fighting icons added to the venture total each and every battle.

#3 to #4, that's my interpretation of how the card should have been worded and what its intent was. Even from #1, there was no intention of having the attacks count every battle, it was clarified:

When Locations were introduced, there was no need to separate a Battlesite's Hits to Current Record and Permanent Record as none of these hits counted for Venture.  With the introduction of this card, it is now necessary to have a Current Record and a Permanent Record for the Battlesite that functions just as they do for Characters.

Another thing to point out is that there are 3 other cards from The Marvels that also play into the current/permanent record of Battlesites. The OJ specials (Alpha Flight, Domino, and Shadowcat). So maybe the new mechanic was actually warranted?

If used against the battlesite, after the battle in which this card is played, it would be moved to the battlesite's Permanent Record.  See the "Other Info" section for code FW for additional information.

--

For your third point about wanting to keep hits on the Battlesite for KO purposes. That was my compromise for avoiding the second mechanic. But it appears to be evident that the Battlesite should have 2 records like Characters because of these 4 cards.

[gameplan.exe]

Yeah, this is basically what I meant, Jack. I don't think I've ever understood Battlesites to not have separate Current/Permanent Records. Mayber that's why I didn't realize there was a problem...

Also, yes, moving the FROG to the front (and really, adding the comma) definitely helps clarify that the Venture count is only good for the battle when the hit landed (which is as it should be).

[thetrooper27]

I always just assumed that battlesites had a current battle and a permanent record.

[Jack]

It was never required since the hits never counted for venture. Until recently, there hasn't really been much attacking of the Battlesite at our meetups.

[thetrooper27]

No doubt no doubt... I guess that's why DoW was made. lol  So, will we be playing by this new current battle mechanic at the Buffalo Event?

[Jack]

It doesn't matter if there are two records for the Battlesite or not, unless any of these 4 cards are played.

[gameplan.exe]

It doesn't matter if there are two records for the Battlesite or not, unless any of these 4 cards are played.

Or unless someone gets the crazy notion to KO a Battlesite regardless, kamakazi-style!! My brother doesn't play with DoW, so occasionally he'll make a deck using Venture-resets and go after a Battlesite directly 

[halcyon1234]

I always just assumed that battlesites had a current battle and a permanent record.

I have to admit, I always thought EVERYTHING had a Current Battle and Permanent record-- characters, specials in play, battlesites, home bases, everything.

It's just that the only thing that counts to venture are Hits to Current Battle on Characters.  That's why hits to an EB special doesn't count to venture. It isn't a character.

[breadmaster]

there's also the krakoa aspect 'living island'

...though it really shouldn't count, really decreases the usefulness of the card.  i guess if you can get 2 or 3 out, then you can venture big in a subsequent battle and trade venture hits, forcing the opponent to concede or risk ko.  maybe i'll have to give this card another look

[steve2275]

I always just assumed that battlesites had a current battle and a permanent record.

I have to admit, I always thought EVERYTHING had a Current Battle and Permanent record-- characters, specials in play, battlesites, home bases, everything.

It's just that the only thing that counts to venture are Hits to Current Battle on Characters.  That's why hits to an EB special doesn't count to venture. It isn't a character.

http://overpower.ca/pages/rules-fight.php?#rules-knocking-out-the-battlesite
Knocking Out the Battlesite—It should be noted that, just as a Battlesite has specific conditions on how it may defend itself, it also has specific conditions on how it is K.O.'d. A Battlesite may be K.O.'d in only one way.
The Cumulative K.O. for Battlesites—At the moment the Value of all of the Hit taken by a Battlesite add up to 30 or more. This includes all Hits in the Permanent Record and Hits From the Current Battle. (See Hits) Remember, this is the only way that a Battlesite can be K.O.'d. A Battlesite may never be Spectrum K.O.'d (See Spectrum K.O.)