NJ and DoW

[breadmaster]

'Acts as a level 4 Strength or Intellect attack. Attack is not affected by Special cards already in play.'

Meta #162 If a card "cannot be defended" by a specific type of card then the opponent may not play any cards of that type during the defensive action of that attack (but cards which are already in play can be used). If a card "is not affected" by a specific type of card, then cards of that type may be used during the defensive action, but any cards already in play before the attack was made are considered not in play until the defensive action is resolved.

if my site is DoW'd, and you play this special, do you think i can play an activator to defend?  usually this card hurts the defender, but nothing seems to state that it can't help them too

[gameplan.exe]

'Acts as a level 4 Strength or Intellect attack. Attack is not affected by Special cards already in play.'

Meta #162 If a card "cannot be defended" by a specific type of card then the opponent may not play any cards of that type during the defensive action of that attack (but cards which are already in play can be used). If a card "is not affected" by a specific type of card, then cards of that type may be used during the defensive action, but any cards already in play before the attack was made are considered not in play until the defensive action is resolved.

if my site is DoW'd, and you play this special, do you think i can play an activator to defend?  usually this card hurts the defender, but nothing seems to state that it can't help them too

to riff off this a little, let's say Dazzler and Professor X are on a team together. if his BG is in play (+2 to all actions), and I play Dazzler's NJ, does it NOT get the bonus?

that seems accurate (in both instances), but it does feel weird...

[breadmaster]

you're right, it DOES feel weird

i'd agree that the +2 gets ignored too

i was thinking more about these babies after harv crippled me with one in buffalo (went through a block off for the kill, i couldn't shift to stars and garters, and had to use my only power card to defend which made a tw unusable )

[Nostalgic]

You couldn't exchange a dazzler activator for this card even if DOW was in play, could you? 

[Demacus]

I would think the DoW restriction on the Activators would prevent them from getting to the battlesite to pull out the NJ special. 

DoW doesn't state that Specials from under the battlesite cannot be played, it states that the opponent cannot use activators FROG until 4 had been used to attack DoW.

[gameplan.exe]

I would think the DoW restriction on the Activators would prevent them from getting to the battlesite to pull out the NJ special. 

DoW doesn't state that Specials from under the battlesite cannot be played, it states that the opponent cannot use activators FROG until 4 had been used to attack DoW.

That's valid. The BG thing is what is the most strange to me 

[breadmaster]

yeah.  i'd agree that the NJ can't be played offensively through dow.  you'd have to be able to play the card to get the effect, and there's no way to access it with dow out

as weird as the BG cancelling, and using activators via a devoured site to defend is, i couldn't find anything to suggest the restriction on NJ can't help the defender

[gameplan.exe]

yeah.  i'd agree that the NJ can't be played offensively through dow.  you'd have to be able to play the card to get the effect, and there's no way to access it with dow out

as weird as the BG cancelling, and using activators via a devoured site to defend is, i couldn't find anything to suggest the restriction on NJ can't help the defender

yeah, you are correct. if NJ is being played against an Opponent, whose Battlesite is DoW'd, the NJ attack should "cancel" the DoW while the Opponent is resolving the NJ attack. Once the NJ is played, all other Special cards that were already in play should be considered "negated" - even DoW.

[Nostalgic]

yeah.  i'd agree that the NJ can't be played offensively through dow.  you'd have to be able to play the card to get the effect, and there's no way to access it with dow out

as weird as the BG cancelling, and using activators via a devoured site to defend is, i couldn't find anything to suggest the restriction on NJ can't help the defender

Makes sense.  Now I'm wondering if an activator could be played to access a EI special after the opponent has conceded.  Technically, you couldn't 'play the activator at that time even if the special it draws could be played.

[Demacus]

I see where you are coming from, and it does seem to make sense, that, as the NJ special is not affected by other specials already in play, would an NJ special really "negate" an affect that wasn't directly interfering with the NJ special, had it been allowed to interfere? 

I completely understand and agree with the sentiment that, via an NJ special, a Charm'd (BJ) defender could still be attacked by an NJ, but under normal circumstances, the attacking special would be shut down by the defending BJ.

The same would hold true in the case of the EB specials, which the NJ special could not be shifted to, thus nullifying the attack.
Arguing that a BG or CM special would not hinder or help the NJ also makes sense.

The NJ special specifically states that "Attack is not affected by Special cards already in play." And while I have no rules, meta or otherwise, to back up my logic here, I don't see why an NJ special being played would allow someone locked down with a DoW to defend via his battlesite, and although DoW IS a special card already it play, it's text has no bearing on attempting to alter the NJ Special card's "attack," which is what the NJ Special defends against, Specials already in play cannot affect the attack itself.  It does not negate all Specials in play for the duration of the attack. 

Any JF Special cards already in play would not cease to be for the duration of the NJ special.  A BZ special already on the table would not allow you to pick your hand back up for the duration of the NJ special, and then be returned to the field after the resolution of the attack.  And what of the angle of having Iceman and Dazzler on the same team?  Would you want to play an NJ you've drawn into somehow after you've already Snow Blinded your opponent?  Would your opponent no longer be -1 to all actions for the duration of the NJ attack coming at him, even though in this instance the Snow Blind does not damper the NJ special, but the opponent the NJ special is aimed at?

The NJ special doesn't not, in effect, "Negate" effects already in play, it simply cannot be hindered by effects which would otherwise hinder it because they were already in play, or in the case of the BG specials already mentioned this thread, cannot be assisted by effects already in play (though I really think that would suck to lose a BG boost, I definitely feel this was designed to be more of a defense breaker then a stand alone attack, but i can see that argument going either way.)

Feel free to continue discussing this very interesting angle...

[breadmaster]

the way it was explained to me, was that any specials in play are considered not to be in play until resolved.  so a card like spawn's living costume (Target Teammate may play any Spawn Special cards for remainder of game) would be ignored, and you couldn't avoid the incoming attack with spawn's AD (unless spawn was still alive)

[Demacus]

I understand the Living Costume angle, as it would allow a character access to cards he would otherwise not have, and the NJ blasts it's way through "unnatural" defenses granted by the Living Costume, similar to the "unnatural" defenses granted by the Charm, Stars and Garters, ect, ect...

It would be kind of cool if the defending player, who's battlesite was locked by a DoW, COULD access a defense in the instance of an NJ special incoming, but I don't think that it's supposed to be that literal.  I'm also fairly certain that if there is a BG in play before you attack with the NJ, you would still benefit from the +2 bonus that the BG provides to the team's actions.  Again, I have nothing more then fair play and common sense to back up my point of view.

To quote Ncann and yourself...

If this is accurate play, it feels weird.

In the instance of an AV hitting Dazzler, can she play the NJ special to attack?

If Adam Warlock were to Soul Gem someone OTHER then Dazzler, could she still attack with her NJ special, to whomever she likes?

I feel like there are some exceptions to the rule of "while the NJ is in play, all specials already in play are treated like they are not."

[breadmaster]

for sure.  finding out venture trumps ko was also weird though

i'm not sure that interpreting it different is somehow 'unfair' or 'not common sense'. 

[Demacus]

for sure.  finding out venture trumps ko was also weird though

Ain't that the truth...

All I meant by "fair play" and "common sense" was that to me, and how I've always played Overpower, this particular angle seems off...  but again, that's just how it feels to me.

[breadmaster]

the warlock and AV ones you added aren't applicable though

you have to be able to play the special to get the effect.  the effect isn't in play before you play it

it seems you COULD soul gem your opponent through dazzler, and then attack someone else with the NJ, thought it would have to be a rare situation to benefit from that (i guess is you already ko'd your target)