the event: 'Discard all multipower cards'
does this apply to special cards as well?
Yes, the card does not specify "Multipower Power cards".
Even though the Special cards do not usually say "multipower"? They usually separate the icons by name on the Special (e.g., Acts as a level 8 Energy, Strength or Fighting attack.), so I wouldn't call that a multipower card...
Multipower cards are cards that have more than one icon. Grunge's IA "Must have a MultiPower card Hit to be K.O.'d" means that he gets KOd if he has at least a card that has two distinct icons as the hit.
Cards like this count too:
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/948.png)
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/977.png)
Maybe I was wrong on this one, looking into the FAQs (about to repost them onto the site) I found:
QuoteQ: The Sabotage event for Annihilation Affair reads "Discard all MultiPower cards."
Does this mean discard only the multi-power power cards (1 through 4)? Or does it
include any multi-power specials such as Professor X's Mindwipe and Mr. Sinister's
Marauder (which only has two powers listed)?
A: The Event is only to discard Multipower cards. That does not mean cards
which have more than one icon, but cards which state that they are
multipower attacks. This of course means all MultiPower power cards, but
does it mean any Specials? No. If you check the Specials carefully, they
typically do not say that they are MultiPower cards, but that they are "Energy,
Fighting, or Strength attacks" (using original AQ Specials as an example).
They are not multipowers. There are 3 Specials out there that do act like
MultiPower attacks (Mole Man's Uproot Earth,. Nightcrawler's Disappearing Act
and Quicksilver's Fast and Furious) but since they all stipulate that they "act
as Multipower attacks" and not that they are "multipower cards" I would not
qualify them to be discarded either.
Of course, he also states (at a later date):
QuoteGrunge's Inherent Ability requires that he be hit with some attack that can act as
more than one type of attack. It does not require that a MultiPower Power card
land on his record. For example, if Onslaught hit him with Mutant Gestalt (which
acts as 2 types of attacks), then the condition of Grunge's IA would be fulfilled.
were either of those Norman Barth qotes? because i would trust him as the paragon of OP meta repository.
From my best guess, yes.
um, this may be common knowledge or a dumb question, but does this Event remove Multipower Power cards from Permanent Records, as well?
I can't find anything telling me otherwise. The Event doesn't specify where the Multipower Power cards are (Hand, placed, etc.), and things can certainly be discarded from Permanent Records, so...?
I think a card is only "discarded" from your hand. It would be "removed" from a permanent record. But I could be mistaken.
Quote from: Demacus on March 10, 2012, 02:24:45 PM
I think a card is only "discarded" from your hand. It would be "removed" from a permanent record. But I could be mistaken.
well, cards from the permanent records are discarded after a K.O., at least, but yeah I'm probably reaching on this one :)
It is really hard to deal with games where the vocabulary is not clearly defined. I think that Overpower never got to the point that a game like Magic is at where there is a clarification for ever little thing, but I do think words like "discard" are pretty clear. You discard from your hand. When cards go from play to the dead pile/power pack they have been "removed". I'm sure there are some places in the rules that might use discard a little more loosely but when a card uses these words I believe that is pretty consistent.
Quote from: Jack on May 30, 2011, 04:43:09 PM
Cards like this count too:
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/977.png)
I'm just curious - why would this count? I understand that it has more than 1 icon, but I read it as the card is literally a 5 Fighting until successful then it becomes the multi......am I completely off my rocker with this thought? or does it count because it has the multi icons listed even if they are not "represented" yet at that time......
I retracted my statement.
Didn't see that statement Jack - Sorry. I was just curious.
Quote from: Jack on June 05, 2011, 06:07:50 PM
Quote
A: If you check the Specials carefully, they typically do not say that they are MultiPower cards, but that they are "Energy, Fighting, or Strength attacks" (using original AQ Specials as an example). They are not multipowers.
There are 3 Specials out there that do act like MultiPower attacks (Mole Man's Uproot Earth,. Nightcrawler's Disappearing Act and Quicksilver's Fast and Furious) but since they all stipulate that they "act as Multipower attacks" and not that they are "multipower cards" I would not qualify them to be discarded either.
Even if it was written by Norman Barth, it looks too inconsistent to me...
If specials like AQ are not multipowers and the only 3 specials that act as multipower attacks are not multipowers either, then there aren't any multipower Special cards.
According to the rule book, The Fusion Rule is as follows: "All MultiPower cards,
not including MultiPower Specials, scored as Hits on one Character must all function as one Power Type."
Why the fusion rule needs to exclude multipower specials if there aren't any multipower specials?
The definition of a multipower power card is a card that may be used as any Power Type indicated on the card. So why Special cards (that may be used as any Power Type indicated on the card) are not considered multipower cards?
And this one seems to be the worst of all:
Quote... but since they all stipulate that they "act as Multipower attacks" and not that they are "multipower cards" I would not qualify them to be discarded either.
Isn't the very same wording on every special with a specific power type? (e.g.: Acts as a level 4 energy attack). So there aren't special cards from a specific power type, they just act as a power type.
In that case, Strong Guy's CN special cannot be used to avoid "Clobberin' Time", since its not a "real" strength card. :P
(http://www.overpower.ca/thumb.php?file=cards/specials/1335.png&size=200) (http://www.overpower.ca/thumb.php?file=cards/specials/1388.png&size=200)
Those are some very valid arguements Bios. I'd have to side with you on this one.
Quote from: Bios on March 18, 2012, 02:59:39 AM
...
Isn't the very same wording on every special with a specific power type? (e.g.: Acts as a level 4 energy attack). So there aren't special cards from a specific power type, they just act as a power type.
In that case, Strong Guy's CN special cannot be used to avoid "Clobberin' Time", since its not a "real" strength card. :P
I was under the impression that his CN could not, in fact, defend that AS...
when I brought up his CN here: http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=240.0 (http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=240.0) BBH was the last response and his was a negative. I deferred to him on it because he has much more experience than me, particularly in the Tournament days (where I never played)
Quote from: ncannelora on March 19, 2012, 02:02:15 PM
I was under the impression that his CN could not, in fact, defend that AS...
when I brought up his CN here: http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=240.0 (http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=240.0) BBH was the last response and his was a negative. I deferred to him on it because he has much more experience than me, particularly in the Tournament days (where I never played)
I don't agree with that, but I will answer to that in the post about CN.
Quote from: Bios on March 19, 2012, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on March 19, 2012, 02:02:15 PM
I was under the impression that his CN could not, in fact, defend that AS...
when I brought up his CN here: http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=240.0 (http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=240.0) BBH was the last response and his was a negative. I deferred to him on it because he has much more experience than me, particularly in the Tournament days (where I never played)
I don't agree with that, but I will answer to that in the post about CN.
fair enough. I could agree that AQ Specials would be considered as Multipower cards, or the GJ specials, but some of the others... I just don't know. I mean, an HR just doesn't seem like a "Multipower" so much as a "dual icon" but, that's when it seems to get sticky... I mean, the Assault on Onslaught Event FUEL FOR THE MACHINE mentions "card with more than one icon" that seems to be all-inclusive. This Event doesn't seem that way...
Fuel for the Machine was also printed a few sets after Sabotage, wasn't it? Better attention paid to wording would change how a card is written, especially after the fact. Or was Sabotage the event released in the same set as Fuel? I don't think it was... In any case, the prefix "multi" simply means more then 1, so in the case of the "dual-icon" cards, two icons is still more then one, even if it doesn't have the full multi potential.
Quote from: Demacus on March 20, 2012, 09:48:52 AM
Fuel for the Machine was also printed a few sets after Sabotage, wasn't it? Better attention paid to wording would change how a card is written, especially after the fact. Or was Sabotage the event released in the same set as Fuel? I don't think it was... In any case, the prefix "multi" simply means more then 1, so in the case of the "dual-icon" cards, two icons is still more then one, even if it doesn't have the full multi potential.
So then, what about the EJ cards? Would Sabretooth's DANGEROUS MIND count as a "Multipower" card? It has 2 different power icons...?
I would imagine that EJ's scoot by on the same ruling that the GD does. It's not a true multi-power since it acts as 1 type, but if it hits, changes to another. These attacks don't act as multi's do, being any of the printed icons as needed, but simply the ones available upon success.
Quote from: Demacus on March 20, 2012, 02:51:28 PM
I would imagine that EJ's scoot by on the same ruling that the GD does. It's not a true multi-power since it acts as 1 type, but if it hits, changes to another. These attacks don't act as multi's do, being any of the printed icons as needed, but simply the ones available upon success.
So we'd say that a "multi-power card" is one that has more than 1 icon and allows the card to be used as more than 1 power type, regardless of offense or defense?
This makes sense. I hadn't been playing the EVENT this way, but I can easily see how it could include the AQ, HR, CC, GJ, etc cards. Good discussion here :)
Quote from: ncannelora on March 20, 2012, 12:47:56 AM
fair enough. I could agree that AQ Specials would be considered as Multipower cards, or the GJ specials, but some of the others... I just don't know. I mean, an HR just doesn't seem like a "Multipower" so much as a "dual icon" but, that's when it seems to get sticky...
Quote from: Demacus on March 20, 2012, 09:48:52 AM
In any case, the prefix "multi" simply means more then 1, so in the case of the "dual-icon" cards, two icons is still more then one, even if it doesn't have the full multi potential.
I'd say Demacus is right. If you read the explanation about multipower
power cards in the rulebook, it says "MultiPower cards may be used as any Power Type indicated on the card, and may be changed to any Power Type indicated on the card at any time during the game." Note that it doesn't specify the number of icons in the card.
That rule refers only to multipower power cards. I think it was just an unintentional omission, since there is no explanation in the rulebook about how multipower specials works (the only info about multi specials is that they are not included in fusion rule, the same info from
meta#45). So I guess its logical to expand multipower power cards mechanics to multipower specials.
Quote from: ncannelora on March 20, 2012, 12:47:56 AM
I mean, the Assault on Onslaught Event FUEL FOR THE MACHINE mentions "card with more than one icon" that seems to be all-inclusive. This Event doesn't seem that way...
Quote from: ncannelora on March 20, 2012, 02:10:53 PM
So then, what about the EJ cards? Would Sabretooth's DANGEROUS MIND count as a "Multipower" card? It has 2 different power icons...?
Multipower cards and cards with more than one icon may be different. Of course all multipowers have more than one icon. But there are also cards with more than an icon that can't be considered multipower power cards, like teamwork cards and specials like EJ.
The reason why EJ shouldn't be considered a multipower is because the power type may not "be changed to any Power Type indicated on the card at any time during the game." So it doesn't fit into the multipower definition.
I guess even Ally cards or Artifact cards are included in "more than an icon" definition, since it doesn't specify that the icons should be different. But I am not sure about that one, just can't remember anything saying otherwise.
Quote from: ncannelora on March 20, 2012, 06:38:29 PM
... Good discussion here :)
Indeed!
So, when this event happens, do you discard placed cards that can act as more than 1 type?
Multipower cards and specials that can act as more than 1 hit.
I feel that that the fusion rule gives evidence that SPECIALS (that can act as more than 1 type) are multipower CARDS.
Quote from: BasiliskFang on August 14, 2013, 06:01:05 PM
So, when this event happens, do you discard placed cards that can act as more than 1 type?
Multipower cards and specials that can act as more than 1 hit.
I feel that that the fusion rule gives evidence that SPECIALS (that can act as more than 1 type) are multipower CARDS.
Yeah, but that's just it... the Fusion Rule does not apply to Special cards, only Power cards.
But, to answer your question, yes.
Quote from: ncannelora on August 14, 2013, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: BasiliskFang on August 14, 2013, 06:01:05 PM
So, when this event happens, do you discard placed cards that can act as more than 1 type?
Multipower cards and specials that can act as more than 1 hit.
I feel that that the fusion rule gives evidence that SPECIALS (that can act as more than 1 type) are multipower CARDS.
Yeah, but that's just it... the Fusion Rule does not apply to Special cards, only Power cards.
But, to answer your question, yes.
Another thing, would I need to discard activators? As they do have 4 (or 3) icons and would be attacks made with more than 1 icon.
The reason I think that specials that can act as "TYPE A or TYPE B" should be discarded.
QuoteThe Fusion Rule—The Fusion Rule is an OverPower Legion ruling on how MultiPower cards function for Spectrum K.O.'s. The Fusion Rule is as follows:
All MultiPower cards, not including MultiPower Specials, scored as Hits on one Character must all function as one Power Type. That one Power Type may change if the attacking player that scored the Hits so chooses; however any change affects all MultiPower cards on that Character. MultiPower cards scored as hits on other Characters may be of other Power Types. MultiPower cards that only have three icons automatically pick up the fourth icon once another MultiPower card that contains all four icons joins it as a Hit on the same Character.
This says there is a group called MultiPower cards (defined as cards that have 2 or more switchable active icons) but the fusion rule doesn't apply to MultiPower Specials.
Hypothetically, if there were a Multipower teamwork or ally then it would fuse with MP power cards.
I don't think anyone is arguing that an AQ can be kept when this Event is in play (I'm not arguing it anymore, we just never even considered it in our playing circle).
I seriously doubt it affects Activator cards. If it did, there would be LOTS more of this Event used competetively, especially considering how expensive the Image Event/Mission set is to get, and how useful it is if you have it. The Sabotage Event would become a must for virtually all Any Hero decks if it restricted Activators :-\ I think the key is that the word "multipower" is never really given to an Activator.
Ok got it.