conflicting events

[breadmaster]

i know the player going first resolves their event first, but what if the player going second's event contradicts the first one?

[Jack]

Any examples?

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Reading through the rules for events, if both players have the same event, then only one gets played.. So, if both players have The Crossing's KO Hero, only 1 hero gets KO'd. However, if there's The Crossing's and Brave and the Bold's KO hero events, 2 heroes gets killed.

I guess, by the rule, both would be in effect, the player going first gets resolved first. Would it be like a AH/CN type of conflict or something else?

[breadmaster]

i'm thinking more along the lines of

any specials in hand may be played by any character VS no specials may be played this battle

[BigBadHarve]

i'm thinking more along the lines of

any specials in hand may be played by any character VS no specials may be played this battle

In that case I don't think either one overrides the other. So both are in play. So any special is usable by any character, but no specials can be played at all. (However, even if you had something like Legacy Regression in play, you wouldn't get the benefit of being able to use all the specials in your hand, because regression lets you ignore the event. But you'd still get your own.)

In the case of something like BEST LAID PLANS, certain events can screw you. If player one plays BLP, and player two plays NEW LEASE ON LIFE, then the Best laid plan is lost. But if player 1 played new Lease, and player 2 BLP, then the best laid plan isn't lost.

-BBH

[breadmaster]

i don't really get that

if both are in play, then why does only the 'no specials' event have it's effects felt?

here's the exact text: 'All special cards in your hand may be played by any hero for remainder of battle.'

if you honour that, then specials can be played.  if you honour 'no specials', then no specials can be played.   i don't see how both can take effect.

[Jack]

How I understand it:

Events change the default "settings" for a battle. So, the first event changes the fact that specials can only be played by certain characters and allows anyone to play any specials. The second event changes that no specials are allowed to be played. So, even if anyone's allowed to play every special, they can't.

We had a discussion topic about conflicts in my law class: In Canada, it's legal to sell your body for prostitution but illegal to tell people that you're doing it. Or similar for marijuana, it's legal to smoke it but illegal to possess it on your person.

So, with the specials, Character A can play Character D specials but no specials can be played.

[breadmaster]

i guess we have different opinions on the defenition of the word 'may'

if i was making the rules, i'd make it whichever event goes second is the one that counts

[steve2275]

sounds conflicting

[Demacus]

BBH and Jack make a very sound, logical point on how to read said events.  I would have to back up their argument that both events would be completed as much as they can.

If this was VS system, they had a rule in place which stated that if "something" can happen, but something else played says that that same "something" cannot happen, cannot always wins.  OP doesn't seem to have said restrictions, nor does it seem to need it.

In your example, it would seem that both events negate each other, but like BBH said, in the off-chance that you or your opponent has a character who cannot be affected by event cards, then he could still play specials, just not EVERYONE'S specials, only his own.  Everyone else would be affected by both events at the same time, in essence changing all specials in your hand into "Any Character" specials, and yet preventing those specials from being played at all.

[breadmaster]

exactly...and that doesn't seem right

one event has 100% of it's effects felt, and the other, zero

[BigBadHarve]

exactly...and that doesn't seem right

one event has 100% of it's effects felt, and the other, zero

Such is the way it is. There are many cards that simply trump other cards, however you slice it.

Now consider the odds of said two events actually coming up at the same time:

One player must have Fatal Attractions against another using Assault on Onslaught

Both players must be using those events.

Both events must come up in the exact same hand.

Jack? Care to give me the math on that statistical probably alone, never mind the chances of players using those missions and events? Assume two players with a 60 card deck. 

-BBH

[breadmaster]

i was thinking about this again, and there IS a way for both events to have effects felt

any specials that are placed CANNOT be played due to 'down but not out'

any specials that are in hand CAN be played due to 'fighting spirit lives'

what that means for activators...i don't know.  does the special ever go IN your hand, or do you simply exchange the activator for the special, and play it immideately?

thoughts?

[gameplan.exe]

seems like these are still both able to be effective...

As noted above, Events are changing the normal rules or sequence of play.
- The normal rule is that characters can only play Special cards that belong to them. The FSL Event changes that rule.
- The other normal rule that's affected is that characters can play Specials at all, and the DBNO Event changes that rule.

The problem is that FSL is not "all-incluse" while DBNO is "all-exclusive."
- Let me give this example:
If FSL is in play, and some one is hit with a GA-Special (Target Character may not play Special cards for remainder of battle.), there is no exception to make based on FSL being in play; that character still cannot play Special cards because the GA has disabled them. Now, if FSL stated, "Characters may not be disabled from playing Special cards this battle." - that would be in direct conflict with DBNO, and create an escape from the GA-Special.

Let me draw another similar comparison...

Witchblade on the Scene (All PC may be played by any FL Character)
vs.
Mutant Rebels Held Captive (No Strength PC may be played)

In this case, the rules being affected are:
- Characters can only play PC as their Power Grids allow (Power Grid restriction is now lifted).
- Strength PC are allowed to be played in the course of a battle, provided the Character has the necessary Power Grid (now disallowed).

Even though the first Event would allow Professor X to play a 5S PC, the second Event disallows S PC, regardless of Power Grid abilities.

So, you might say FSL "changes" your FL Character's names to match the Specials in hand as needed, (allowing the use of any Special cards from hand) - just like WOTS does for Power Grids;
however,
DBNO says no one can play Special cards, regardless of whether or not their names' match the Specials, just like MRHC stops S PC, regardless of Power Grid allowances.

[Demacus]

Exactly.  Both events are in full effect.  One does not trump the other, they are simply both in play.  It would be a similar situation with FSL and Symbiotic Hero Captured, the maximum carnage event that states No "One-per-deck" cards can be played.  That Mindwipe in your hand is dead, whether Xavier is still alive or not.  But since both events are active, anyony can Psychic Shield, not just Prof X.

[breadmaster]

how is 'FSL' in effect if it has no impact on the battle?

it seems unanimous that people feel 'DBNO' overpowers any increased effects from other events (even taking into effect the place/hand scenario i pointed out) . 

i don't play any CCGs, so is this a common theme, or just a statement on human nature in general. (ie: we believe prohibition is stronger than permission)