level one power cards may not be blocked event.

[rucker73]

Hey there everyone, I was playing with Bread the other day and he had this event in play and he nailed me with a double shot combined with a level 1 power card.  I complained at first but ended up buying into his interpretation on the rule.  Just wondering what the rest of the community thinks.

Does this mean that if you were to combine it with a special card or double shot that the full attack now hits automatically?

Thoughts?

[BigBadHarve]

Welcome back, buddy! 

And yes, the event only states that level 1s cannot be blocked, any other combination doesn't change that.

But then, factor the odds of having them all together.

-BBH

[steve2275]

Hey there everyone, I was playing with Bread the other day and he had this event in play and he nailed me with a double shot combined with a level 1 power card.  I complained at first but ended up buying into his interpretation on the rule.  Just wondering what the rest of the community thinks.

Does this mean that if you were to combine it with a special card or double shot that the full attack now hits automatically?

Thoughts?

i see he got you with that too

[gameplan.exe]

I disagree with this assessment based on the Errata to the X-World Homebase, as compared with the Aspect for Danger Room.

with X-World, the I.A. says "Power card attacks" and the ruling is that any attack made with a Power card, is NOT necessarily a "Power card attack", so the Inherent does not apply to Doubleshots, AE-types, or even Universe cards, but only "plain" Power card attacks.

with Holographic Attackers, the card says "attacks made with Power cards" and therefore Doubleshots, Universe cards, and AE-type Specials are all under the wording of the Aspect.

So, the Event says "level 1 power card attacks," which is very specific and not open-ended. I'd argue that an attack made with a Doubleshot and a level 1 Power card is NOT a "level 1 power card attack" but is "an attack made with a level 1 Power card." and therefore, still blockable with this Event in play.

But that's just one man's opinion.

[rucker73]

That is a very well thought out and reasoned answer Ncann...  and sort of what I was thinking when I brought this up.

Thanks for digging up that old discussion to set precedent for your argument.

[BigBadHarve]

I disagree with this assessment based on the Errata to the X-World Homebase, as compared with the Aspect for Danger Room.

with X-World, the I.A. says "Power card attacks" and the ruling is that any attack made with a Power card, is NOT necessarily a "Power card attack", so the Inherent does not apply to Doubleshots, AE-types, or even Universe cards, but only "plain" Power card attacks.

with Holographic Attackers, the card says "attacks made with Power cards" and therefore Doubleshots, Universe cards, and AE-type Specials are all under the wording of the Aspect.

So, the Event says "level 1 power card attacks," which is very specific and not open-ended. I'd argue that an attack made with a Doubleshot and a level 1 Power card is NOT a "level 1 power card attack" but is "an attack made with a level 1 Power card." and therefore, still blockable with this Event in play.

Sorry but I have to disagree with the conclusion...

First, there's no actual rule stating the difference in the wording. An attack is an attack. A 'power card attack' and 'an attack made with a power card' are synonymous. If you can find somewhere in the rules that differentiate, please do. (And to digress slightly - if we're really going to get picky about  wording, an attack made 'with' a power card would imply a two card attack containing an attack and a power card. The attack is 'with' the power card, as opposed to an attack made 'by' a power card. And if we follow that logic, we create a whole new slew of problems with this game.)

Following your reasoning, then level 1 power card attacks that follow Teamworks would also NOT apply if that event was in play. The effect of the TW is to boost the card thus making it the same as if it were played with a basic universe card. (Very much the same way a TW follow up CAN beat Acrobatics)

Also, as it stands, combined cards share properties. This is true of AE specials, Universe cards etc. A special combined with a power card is both a special AND a power card. Thus can be negated OR beaten with a power card specific defense. As with Universe cards - A BU, training, or TW follow up can be beaten with a power card defense OR a universe card defense.

If I were to fastball special Heroes for Hire's Black knight - that 3 is now a 7 which cannot be defended with a special card. Would you say that because of the Fastball special, the 3 can now be stopped with a special? Of course not, the two cards share their properties.

But the same logic applies here - If the event creates the stipulation that a level 1 cannot be blocked, that property now becomes relevant to whatever card I combine with that level 1. Be it a teamwork, a doubleshot, an AE special etc. That card simply cannot be stopped.

On a more pragmatic level - why over-complicate it? It's a lightning strike kind of situation that is actually quite clear on a surface level. Level 1 power cards may not be blocked. Therefore anything you do with that level 1 is fair game. No need to lawyer the scenario to the point where we have a column of what CAN stop that unstoppable level 1 and what cannot. (There's enough lawyering needed in this game as it is!)

-BBH

[Kal-el]

For me, the difference would be the word 'card'. If level one attacks can't be blocked, then I could see a 1 plus a training being blocked, as it's no longer a level 1. However, since it says power card, you're still hitting them with a level one power card, regardless of how you modify it.

[steve2275]

the word "block" in this case has always bothered me
yeah i cant block it with a power card
but why cant i still just avoid the attack with an ad ag or ee special?

the ba special card says "can only be defended"
to bad the event doesnt say "defended" instead of "blocked"

All level 1 Power Card attacks cannot be defended this battle.

[gameplan.exe]

Sorry but I have to disagree with the conclusion...

First, there's no actual rule stating the difference in the wording. An attack is an attack. A 'power card attack' and 'an attack made with a power card' are synonymous. If you can find somewhere in the rules that differentiate, please do. (And to digress slightly - if we're really going to get picky about  wording, an attack made 'with' a power card would imply a two card attack containing an attack and a power card. The attack is 'with' the power card, as opposed to an attack made 'by' a power card. And if we follow that logic, we create a whole new slew of problems with this game.)

...

-BBH

there is a distinction made between "Power card attacks" and "attacks made with a Power card" based on the rules governing X-World's I.A.
(from the Meta Rules):

Rules:
•Any attack made of the specified type cannot be affected by cards of the specified type which were already in play prior to the attack.
•Any cards, even ones of the specified type, may be played in reaction to the attack (provided it is legal to play it from all other circumstances)
•If a card of the specified type prevents the character with this Inherent to make an attack in the first place, then this Inherent would not come into effect - first the attack must be makeable. Once makeable, then it will not be affected by cards in play.
•A Power Card attack is an attack made with a power card only. It is not any attack made with a Power Card (such as a teamwork follow up).

Home Base Examples:
•X-World "X-World's Power card attacks are not affected by Special cards already in play."

I understand the rarity of it happening in a single hand (except you can build/place to this end), and it's a clever play, but it's still an attempt at a loophole, where the rules tie it shut.

[breadmaster]

good find nic

managed to wipe out my cosmic sneak attack AND my xworld strategy (a build i've been tinkering with alot lately) in one swoop

[gameplan.exe]

good find nic

managed to wipe out my cosmic sneak attack AND my xworld strategy (a build i've been tinkering with alot lately) in one swoop

I'm only familiar with this difference because of all my reading/tinkering about Danger Room and the Holographic Attackers Aspect (which includes all attacks made with a power card). The biggest difficulty then, is getting that Aspect into play early (as is the case with all the really good, game-affecting Aspects  )

[BigBadHarve]

Indeed a good find, so I have to retract my earlier statement. But once again, I have to flat out state that the official rules are ASS!

Talk about a stupid rule. Let's take a game that is already needlessly complex with contradictions and unintuitive plays and add a new and unnecessary wrinkle. Ugh.


-BBH

[Torch]

Indeed a good find, so I have to retract my earlier statement. But once again, I have to flat out state that the official rules are ASS!

Talk about a stupid rule. Let's take a game that is already needlessly complex with contradictions and unintuitive plays and add a new and unnecessary wrinkle. Ugh.


-BBH

This is why I'm looking to incorporate a more modern, streamlined ruleset that uses the more advanced notion of the 'chain' from VS (or the 'stack' from Magic) that allows for more strategy and tactics using the cards we have.  Card drawing, hand size, and duplicate rules would need to be tweaked to accommodate (help game flow), but I believe it would make the game more dynamic and fluid.

[Demacus]

I've been pondering something of the ilk myself Torch.  Like you said, the issues would fall into the Duplication rule and the hand size rule (though the hand size rule would be easier to get around.) However, to make Overpower as fluid as VS or Magic you would need to re-work the ENTIRE game, thus killing Overpower. 

What Overpower needs, honestly, is to toss out EVERYTHING that is unclear about the game, any special that is ambiguous, any Meta rule that doesn't make sense to the play of the game, and just start from scratch.  Take the Basic concepts that the game was created by, and CLARIFY every card, so that there is no confusion to the intent on the card.  The only way THIS is going to happen, officially, is if Upper Deck were to relaunch the game, having taken the time and effort to undo the ambiguities of the orginal game.  An Overpower version 2.0 if you will. 

[thetrooper27]

I can't remember the thread, but Jack posted this BIG diagram of a circle within a circle and had the power card attacks vs attacks made with power cards example in it.  He used it to define "pure" power card attacks.  I remember it had something to do with Mojo's inherent ability... or something like that...

Power card attacks... attacks made with power cards.  Defend... block... avoid.  When to discard dupes... when to keep unusables.  Does the name in the text change when you actvate a special from a battlesite or just the name on the side of the special card?  It would be the coolest thing ever if someone could rewrite the rules in a coherent yet simple fashion, with a glossary of terms to study while I'm in the bathroom after a round at El Charolais.  I'm convinced that there will always be a poophole... excuse me, LOOPhole in this game.   LONG LIVE OP!!! *cheers and applause*