SUM DECK Rule

[gameplan.exe]

I really wanted to make a team with Cable and Domino, but was finding myself really held back by Cable's stupidly expensive grid. Don't get me wrong, It's pretty appropriate (actually, I think 6-8-4-5 would be better, but whatevs), but it's so cumbersome and it really bums me out!

That got me thinking; in the earlier evolutions of the game (IQ-Monumental), it seems like it made sense. But as I continually evaluate the end-game errata, meta-rules, and strategies, it seems like the SUM DECK Rule might be... well... outdated, i guess.

So, think long before answering, and tell me what you think about the SUM DECK Rule.

[BigBadHarve]

I have to say that I'm fine with the sum-deck rule.

Unfortunately, many characters themselves weren't necessarily designed for balance, but the sum-deck rule is good. It makes you think about the teams you're building, and adds an element of strategy and skill.

BTW - I'm sure you're already aware, but Cable and Domino both appear on the X-mansion location card...

-BBH

[Onslaught]

In theory it should have been a tool used for balancing.

Max Level 8 stat + High Point Total = Character Receives Average Specials
Max Level 8 stat + Low Point Total = Character Receives Below Average Specials
Max Level 7 stat + High Point Total = Character Receives Above Average Specials
Max Level 7 stat + Low Point Total = Character Receives Average Specials
Max Level 6 stat + High Point Total = Character Receives Ridiculously Good Specials
Max Level 6 Stat + Low Point Total = Character Receives Above Average Specials

This could also have been tweaked taking into consideration how good or bad the character's inherent ability is, if they appear on powerful homebases, whether or not they were dual stat, etc.

The weird thing about point totals is that trying to balance a character with good specials by giving it bad stats usually makes it stronger due to having a low point total. If there were an 8 character with a negate, I would want all his other stats to be really low - say something like 2-1-1-8. This would hurt your deck composition, but obviously such a low cost would end up being more beneficial instead of a drawback. The only real thing I can think of that would address this would be inherent abilities that make people cost more than their printed stats.

Ultimately, the sum deck rule isn't as nicely balanced as it could have been, but I still think it's necessary. It makes some characters exponentially stronger (like X-Man and Scarlet Witch), but it also retains some value for characters with weaker specials but favorable grid distribution (Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Bullseye, Etc.). If anything, I wish the cost was about two points lower to make the Spawn/H4H anchors harder to build around, but it would make the 23 point characters unplayable.

[BigBadHarve]

In theory it should have been a tool used for balancing.

Max Level 8 stat + High Point Total = Character Receives Average Specials
Max Level 8 stat + Low Point Total = Character Receives Below Average Specials
Max Level 7 stat + High Point Total = Character Receives Above Average Specials
Max Level 7 stat + Low Point Total = Character Receives Average Specials
Max Level 6 stat + High Point Total = Character Receives Ridiculously Good Specials
Max Level 6 Stat + Low Point Total = Character Receives Above Average Specials


This could also have been tweaked taking into consideration how good or bad the character's inherent ability is, if they appear on powerful homebases, whether or not they were dual stat, etc.

The weird thing about point totals is that trying to balance a character with good specials by giving it bad stats usually makes it stronger due to having a low point total. If there were an 8 character with a negate, I would want all his other stats to be really low - say something like 2-1-1-8. This would hurt your deck composition, but obviously such a low cost would end up being more beneficial instead of a drawback. The only real thing I can think of that would address this would be inherent abilities that make people cost more than their printed stats.

Ultimately, the sum deck rule isn't as nicely balanced as it could have been, but I still think it's necessary. It makes some characters exponentially stronger (like X-Man and Scarlet Witch), but it also retains some value for characters with weaker specials but favorable grid distribution (Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Bullseye, Etc.). If anything, I wish the cost was about two points lower to make the Spawn/H4H anchors harder to build around, but it would make the 23 point characters unplayable.

I pretty much agree with you on this. Though, a 23 point 8 character might be deserving of good specials too.

Onslaught is a good example of this being done right. He's really pricey, but both his grid AND specials make the cost worthwhile. He has nothing game-breaking, but his cards are all useful.

X-man, by contrast is too good for the point cost. He should either be more expensive, or a little less useful in the specials department.

Characters like Vision or the New Warriors should have truly sick cards.

But the sum deck rule itself is solid, I think.

-BBH

[Nostalgic]

I chose the 'necessary for balance' option, but me and my friend use the NEO cost capping method to calculate sum deck total.  The formula basically makes many of the higher point cost characters cheaper if used on the front line. This also helps many 6 and under characters that may have multiple sixes but no higher stat.  For instance, under the cost capping rules Ghost Rider costs 17 points instead of 20.  To use the character first mentioned, Cable would be 19 points instead of 23. 

[BigBadHarve]

I chose the 'necessary for balance' option, but me and my friend use the NEO cost capping method to calculate sum deck total.  The formula basically makes many of the higher point cost characters cheaper if used on the front line. This also helps many 6 and under characters that may have multiple sixes but no higher stat.  For instance, under the cost capping rules Ghost Rider costs 17 points instead of 20.  To use the character first mentioned, Cable would be 19 points instead of 23.  

The thing about Cable and Ghost Rider, is that they are worth the points you spend on them.

Apocalypse on the other hand... not worth the 23 points so much. What does he work out to under the NEO system?

-BBH

[Palatinus]

I feel like without the sum deck rule homebases are pretty much irrelevant.  Also, I have played a deck using the sum deck rule against one that was way over and the difference is very telling.  I also think it does make you put more effort into choosing your characters and gives some characters a chance to be used where they otherwise would not be.

[gameplan.exe]

BTW - I'm sure you're already aware, but Cable and Domino both appear on the X-mansion location card...

Yeah, I know. I've actually thought about making a "double date" team with Cable/Domino and Cyclops/Jean.

I feel like without the sum deck rule homebases are pretty much irrelevant.  Also, I have played a deck using the sum deck rule against one that was way over and the difference is very telling.  I also think it does make you put more effort into choosing your characters and gives some characters a chance to be used where they otherwise would not be.

I don't think the Home Bases lose their usefulness. Most of the Home Bases that come to mind, that skirt the Sum Deck Rule, all tend to have limiting Inherent Abilities in some way. Danger Room is one of the few exceptions I can see to this, since you can get to 80 (by using Angel, Beast, Bishop, and Gambit), but it still has a great I.A. In general, though, I think Home Bases are great for their I.A., not for the ability to go >76 Sum Deck.

In general, it's just a bummer that the best way to use Cable is to also use X-babies. Maybe I'll look into the NEO rules for deck building...

[BigBadHarve]

In general, it's just a bummer that the best way to use Cable is to also use X-babies. Maybe I'll look into the NEO rules for deck building...

It's not so bad, because you only need two 17 point characters to offset Cable. If you don't want the Babies, there are plenty of 17 point energy characters who go well with him. That leaves you 19 points for a 4th character. Or a 16 and 18 pointer. Cable, Jubilee, X-Men: Original Team make for a front line that leaves you with 19 points to play with for another character. That's just off the top of my head.

There's no need to try to correct a sum deck balance with only one character, there are many options if you spread the wealth, so to speak.

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

It's not so bad, because you only need two 17 point characters to offset Cable. If you don't want the Babies, there are plenty of 17 point energy characters who go well with him. That leaves you 19 points for a 4th character. Or a 16 and 18 pointer. Cable, Jubilee, X-Men: Original Team make for a front line that leaves you with 19 points to play with for another character. That's just off the top of my head.

There's no need to try to correct a sum deck balance with only one character, there are many options if you spread the wealth, so to speak.

-BBH

I guess I would just have to experience playing against some one who wasn't using the Sum Deck rule to see its value. Obvs I still play with it. And yes, there are lots of ways to use Cable, but it still bugs me.
I might still try the Front Line you just mentioned, though, because that's pretty hairy!

[BigBadHarve]

I guess I would just have to experience playing against some one who wasn't using the Sum Deck rule to see its value. Obvs I still play with it. And yes, there are lots of ways to use Cable, but it still bugs me.
I might still try the Front Line you just mentioned, though, because that's pretty hairy!

Imagine the abuse the Beyonder would get if there was no sum deck rule! Yikes!

I actually made an X-men themed team that I have yet to test fully, though it's well beneath sum deck. (tried it once, liked it)

X-men:OT, Magneto, Jubilee with Prof. X in reserve.

X-Men can use the professor's OPDs, so you get his heavy hits, a good mix of defense and attacks between Jubilee and X-Men, plus Magneto's 8 Grid and his cards. You have enough Defense that Any-Heroes are viable, but a good battlesite will also rock that team.

-BBH

[Onslaught]

In general, it's just a bummer that the best way to use Cable is to also use X-babies.

They are one of the coolest character cards in the game though, so I'm not sure why you would lament! Their drawbacks and strengths interact nicely...the dichotomy of low stats both hurting and helping - in combination with amazing special cards. I think there is still a stigma attached to using the Marauders, X-Babies, or Four Freedoms homebase. Yes they were all degenerately broken at one point, but they are all fine on the current power scale.

The X-Babies having such a terrible grid means that to maximize their effectiveness, you really need to be hitting the max deck total. Cable is one of the few 23 point characters, so they go well together in terms of making a strong deck that is also interesting. I look at it as "wow, Cable lets me fully maximize the strengths of the X-Babies while minimizing their weaknesses" instead of "oh no, Cable forces me to use the X-Babies." (Of course, there are tons of viable Cable lineups even without the X-Babies. If you are willing to not include an 8 stat or a negate, you can have some pretty interesting teams. If you want to play very standard and have both an 8 and a negate, you can always run Cable, The Ray, Serpent Society, and 3 stat Spider-Woman in reserve.)

My personal deck that I have sleeved up in real life right now is Cable, Spawn, X-Babies, Hawkeye.

[Hot Rod]

Imagine the abuse the Beyonder would get if there was no sum deck rule! Yikes!

I actually made an X-men themed team that I have yet to test fully, though it's well beneath sum deck. (tried it once, liked it)

X-men:OT, Magneto, Jubilee with Prof. X in reserve.

X-Men can use the professor's OPDs, so you get his heavy hits, a good mix of defense and attacks between Jubilee and X-Men, plus Magneto's 8 Grid and his cards. You have enough Defense that Any-Heroes are viable, but a good battlesite will also rock that team.

-BBH

I totally agree with this, Beyonder is barely within reason as is.  My dad's old Beyonder Jubilee deck was impossible to land a hit agains't, if it wasn't for H4H/the odd White Queen (nobody played New Warriors) he'd hardly of lost any games with it. 

A deck under the 76 sum is actually quite a challenge to build around.  The deck I'm rocking at the moment is 73 points, and all the characters are either too puny, feeble minded or nerdy to make a good follow up on any teamworks!

[Nostalgic]

I chose the 'necessary for balance' option, but me and my friend use the NEO cost capping method to calculate sum deck total.  The formula basically makes many of the higher point cost characters cheaper if used on the front line. This also helps many 6 and under characters that may have multiple sixes but no higher stat.  For instance, under the cost capping rules Ghost Rider costs 17 points instead of 20.  To use the character first mentioned, Cable would be 19 points instead of 23.  

The thing about Cable and Ghost Rider, is that they are worth the points you spend on them.

Apocalypse on the other hand... not worth the 23 points so much. What does he work out to under the NEO system?

-BBH

Apocalypse is 18pts. 

[Nate Grey]

I will admit I wasn't very thrilled when I came across the Sum Deck Rule. As a comic book fan first and foremost, I like seeing teams made up of characters that make sense being together. Its strange picturing the Marauders teaming up with the X-Babies.  I do understand the reason for the rule though and I will adhere to it if I ever play against you guys. I just feel that the rule makes so many people play with the same characters against one another.