Ok. I'm well aware of the Clones vs. Varients rule... Spider-Man and Spider-Man: Alien Symbiote are considered Varients and can NOT appear on the same team.
Beast and Dark Beast are considered Clones and CAN appear together on the same team.
The biggest indicator I've found that shows the difference between a clone and a varient is the change of the inherant ability "May play {x}'s specials.
Hence, Doppleganger, a clone of Spider-Man, has the text "May play any Spider-Man Special cards," and because of this, Spider-Man and Doppy can both be on the same team.
Here's where I'm a tad unclear, as I just noticed this today. Golden Age Wolverine has the inherant "May play any Wolverine Special cards." Does this mean that G.A.Wolvie and 1 of his other variations can be on the same team, G.A.Wolvie and Wolvie:AoA, let's say?
http://overpower.ca/archive/wildchild/oprule-clone.html
Both Wolverine: GA and Voodoo: Daemonite have no official inherent ability either.
So... according to that link... Dark Beast and Beast:The Brute are clones of each other, can cannot appear on the same team together? Kinda nixes that whole White King Quad-Negate deck, doesn't it?
Thank you for your quick response. I THOUGHT G.A.Wolvie was considered a clone of Wolverine, and could not be on the same team as him, but the inherant threw me, since he was the only one with that inherant that wasn't an actual varient.
I actually think that page is a bit wrong, I didn't give it a good look through.
Beast and Dark Beast are clones.. Clones are allowed to be in the same deck, variants aren't. Variants usually have a : in the name.
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People use the term interchangeably, I can't seem to find consistent wording for them. The OP Playbook says that:
Clone: Wolverine / Wolverine: AOA
Variant: Bastion / Sentinels
So.... my head's hurting now.
Well that makes no sense then. I definitely wouldn't consider Bastion and Sentinels variants.
The relationship between Bastion and Sentinels are of one type. Characters of this class can be included in a deck together.
The relationship between Wolverine and Wolverine: AoA are of another type. Characters of this class cannot be included in a deck together.
Well that makes no sense then. I definitely wouldn't consider Bastion and Sentinels variants.
But they also are not clones...
The thing is, Beast:The Brute comes from a parallel universe different from Beast and Dark Beast's universes entirely. If Dark Beast, who is really Beast: Age of Apocalypse, and Beast can co-exist, why couldn't Beast and Beast:The Brute?
Seems a very fine line to look at, save for the fact that Beast and Dark Beast both co-existed in the Normal Marvel Universe after the fall of the AoA, and Beast:The Brute, remained in his universe when the Mutant X story arc came to a close, but that doesn't mean in the future he, or others from THAT parallel universe, couldn't make their way into co-existance with the current characters.
Spider-Man and Scarlet Spider are clones in the "story" sense, but in Overpower, they would not be considered clones for deckbuilding purposes, though, they aren't varients either. Seems to me a lot of confusion could have been saved if the devlopers had simply made specials specificto each of these odd characters. Yes, Beast and Dark Beast are essentially the same character, but their different histories would alter their personalities/abilities enough to justify making a set of specials exclusiveto Dark Beast, that Normal Beast couldn't play, and simply not allow Dark Beast to play Beast's specials either.
Ultimately, this arguement is neither here nor there cause it can't be changed, but damnit, someone needs to have a solid list of who's a clone and who's not. lol
Quote from: Demacus on August 06, 2011, 01:00:35 PM
So... according to that link... Dark Beast and Beast:The Brute are clones of each other, can cannot appear on the same team together? Kinda nixes that whole White King Quad-Negate deck, doesn't it?
Thank you for your quick response. I THOUGHT G.A.Wolvie was considered a clone of Wolverine, and could not be on the same team as him, but the inherant threw me, since he was the only one with that inherant that wasn't an actual varient.
hmm... i never considered that Beast: The Brute was a clone of Dark Beast...
since it's not Dark Beast: The Brute...
that doesn't seem right to me, but I've been told that my opinions don't matter :-\
Why should you be allowed to have Cyclops and then X-Men: Original Team on the same deck?
Ncann: Don't know who told you that your opinions don't matter. I love reading your posts.
DiceK: Valid Point. How can X-Men: Original team be allowed to be on a team with ANY of their 5 (6 if you count Prof X) individual members. And why isn't there and X-Factor: Original Team, Fantastic Four: Original Team, Avengers: Original Team, ect, ect?
Quote from: Demacus on February 24, 2012, 04:32:20 PM
Ncann: Don't know who told you that your opinions don't matter. I love reading your posts.
DiceK: Valid Point. How can X-Men: Original team be allowed to be on a team with ANY of their 5 (6 if you count Prof X) individual members. And why isn't there and X-Factor: Original Team, Fantastic Four: Original Team, Avengers: Original Team, ect, ect?
lol, I was teasing :P
Also, X-Factor: Original Team would be the same as X-Men: Original Team, fyi. X-Factor was started right after Jean Grey was found to be alive - post D.Phoenix. The XM:OT had disbanded, but they decided to get back together...
Anyway, on this point, I suppose it's the same reason Black King and White Queen can be on a team with the Hellfire Club. In fact, it's even worse with Black King, since he can also play Hellfire Club Specials! Really, this is a fault of making Character cards out of teams of people (something I don't think they ever should've done, personally).
I just have to add that the Original X-factor would have been comprised of the same people, yes, but they were older, and experience had taught them more, so their specials could be completely different and unique. Just a side thought.
Quote from: Demacus on February 24, 2012, 06:12:10 PM
I just have to add that the Original X-factor would have been comprised of the same people, yes, but they were older, and experience had taught them more, so their specials could be completely different and unique. Just a side thought.
8)
how about this for a home made?
X-Men: X-Factor 7-3-2-5
"All special cards are +1 to attack"
Since Prof was out of the picture (for them), they shouldn't have the old I.A., and they're more experienced, so their old moves are more effective ;)
lol I like it. Same special pool as before, but more aggressive. The would be wiser too, so we'd need something to reflect increased defense as well, but it's a great starting point.
Quote from: ncannelora on February 24, 2012, 07:11:10 PM
Quote from: Demacus on February 24, 2012, 06:12:10 PM
I just have to add that the Original X-factor would have been comprised of the same people, yes, but they were older, and experience had taught them more, so their specials could be completely different and unique. Just a side thought.
8)
how about this for a home made?
X-Men: X-Factor 7-3-2-5
"All special cards are +1 to attack"
Since Prof was out of the picture (for them), they shouldn't have the old I.A., and they're more experienced, so their old moves are more effective ;)
i say 7335
18 points is a nice bump. Maybe throw in a playable from reserve special for the team as well. Offensive would be cool. :D
You know, I have to say this specifici matchup (Black King/HC) is one of my personal favorites ;) but I do agree with the thought of not being able to play them together. I think they should have made a ruling that characters "from groups" cannot play on the same team as the group. Whether it be for playing purposes or "realism" etc. This would have been a good ruling IMO.
Quote from: Jesse on February 28, 2012, 08:27:14 AM
You know, I have to say this specifici matchup (Black King/HC) is one of my personal favorites ;) but I do agree with the thought of not being able to play them together. I think they should have made a ruling that characters "from groups" cannot play on the same team as the group. Whether it be for playing purposes or "realism" etc. This would have been a good ruling IMO.
Well, I'm not sure this is a good fit for the game or in the context of comic books. It's not as though every team's member roster in comics is static. Also, the group dynamic of the team characters in Overpower does not necessarily represent every character being there all the time. If it did, most of the team character's stats would be 8,8,8,8 or 7,7,7,7. So, think about the Hellfire Club with the Black King on the same team representing a time when the Black King is actively fighting along side them as opposed to him being off doing something else or calling in sick that day.
Quote from: Palatinus on February 28, 2012, 08:45:09 AM
... a time when the Black King is ... calling in sick that day.
I know what you're saying, but the idea of Black King calling in sick has me rolling!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Demacus on February 25, 2012, 05:08:04 AM
18 points is a nice bump. Maybe throw in a playable from reserve special for the team as well. Offensive would be cool. :D
or perhaps
ANGEL
Teammate may avoid 1 attack of 9 or less. May be played while Angel is in Reserve.
could someone make an updated list for this to clear it all up? i am getting started on some serious deck building combos :)
So Jean Grey and Jean Grey: Dark Phoenix fall under the same rule as Spiderman and Symbiote Spiderman and are NOT allowed on the same team because they are clones?
that is correct sir.
":" may not appear on the same team as the normal character. Clone. Beast: Brute, Havok: Mutant X, Strom: Bloodstorm. All 3 grid characters. Exception: Golden Age Wolverine.
The IA reading "may play ... specials" means variant. Black King, Doppleganger, Bastion, Dark Beast.
Quote from: BasiliskFang on March 26, 2014, 07:09:33 PM
The IA reading "may play ... specials" means variant. Black King, Doppleganger, Bastion, Dark Beast.
Except Golden Age Wolverine, for some stupid reason.
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 26, 2014, 07:19:46 PM
Quote from: BasiliskFang on March 26, 2014, 07:09:33 PM
The IA reading "may play ... specials" means variant. Black King, Doppleganger, Bastion, Dark Beast.
Except Golden Age Wolverine, for some stupid reason.
maybe he should have been called "Wolverine: Golden Age"