DS by activator

[AO user]

You can fetch a special of hero who plays it.  Q: can beyonder play it?

[breadmaster]

this was the issue that came up a few weeks back on the boards

does beyonder's inherent which allows him to play any specials, make the specials 'his'

my thoughts are no.  the DS from a site would replace the name in the text with the character playing it.  so...

'Choose one Beyonder Special from Draw Pile and place in hand. Cannot be a duplicate. Reshuffle Draw pile.'

since beyonder has no specials, he's out of luck.  same with characters like crystal/superpatriot/beta ray bill

[AO user]

i thought i read a thread but i can never find my way back.  I thought it went off to explain clone vs variant and how clones COULD play there own.  but thats the official /metaruled view: no DS from Beyonder?  sigh*

[Hot Rod]

It should be apparent after the debate a month ago that any of Norman Barth's metarules that break the game should be null and void.

In this case, it's exactly the one we covered. 

By this flawed metarule, if you put Crystal into a Beyonder deck not only can Crystal not play Lockjaw, Beyonder can't play the Inhumans specials, as they are not on the team.

[AO user]

Is this the thread?

http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/playing-specials/beyonder-and-the-issue-of-focused-forceinspiration/msg17622/#msg17622

[BasiliskFang]

Beyonder should be able to play any specials in the deck that aren't one per deck.

Therefore, any cards labeled to be owned by inhumans here in fact now labeled by crystal or beyonder.

Apply this to any variant character.

Since there is usually only one character action per turn, please apply the owner's label on a per turn basis. When beyonder is on the team, any specials (non opd) within the deck now read 'or beyonder'.

You guys get where I'm going with this. This solves the ds fetch issue.

[steve2275]

crystal has every right to search for black bolt via lockjaw
ill leave this thread now
and i agree with fang
sure beyonder has specials   the non OPDS of his teammates 

[BasiliskFang]

makes sense, right?

[Pass the Gestalt]

Yup. If you go back and read the debate material carefully, that is what we were proposing as a fix to the rules. Any characters like Crystal basically have implicit ownership to any Special they can play, which fixes the game for fetch Specials. I wanted to propose that to whatever Rules Committee we strike up. Might be a good idea in Columbus, when we have time.

See, Norm Barth got all weirded out, because he saw Beyonder playing a bunch of 6 -4 venture cards [like X-Babies 6 str], then chucking Inspiration from a battlesite or teammate on top of them. So he broke the whole special "ownership" issue with a crappy ruling. Missing the point that if I play Cyclops with all his great specials now, I can pull Inspiration out of a battlesite, and probably do more venture than Beyonder ever could. 100% legit. Beyonder can't play OPD specials, where most of the venture in the game gets generated. Fixing the "ownership" rule makes Inspiration more -playable-, it doesn't make it a game breaker.

All HotRod and I wanted to do was talk it out rationally. Both of us love the game, just want to make it more playable for everyone. If we want to keep it alive, at some point we are going to have to at least rewrite some of the rules, and fix some of the more idiotic rulings. [My pet bitch is chain attacks got nerfed, can't play Adam Warlock 3F to Invisible Woman 3I and back. No reason for this ruling I can see, other than "someone might lose an eye with this combination."] PtG

[BasiliskFang]

what would be doubled on the 6 -4 special. 12-4 or 12-8?

[steve2275]

what would be doubled on the 6 -4 special. 12-4 or 12-8?

add 6 to you venture
opponents subtracts 4 from theirs

o wait  thats what you normally do

add 12 to yours (since inspiration says your venture total)
but opponent still subtracts just 4