Black Cat - kiss of death - BA

[breadmaster]

BA: Acts as a level 3 Energy attack. Cannot be defended by a male hero. (BA)

my understanding is that this CAN be negated by a male

this is the only BA that says 'cannot'...the rest all say 'can/may only be defended by...'

also from jack's qna

Question: For Black Cat's Kiss Of Death special, can it still be negated by the male hero it's made on, or another hero? For example, if Deadpool was attacked, could the Reavers negate it? (1998-04-19)

Answer: Anyone can negate any Special unless the Special specifically states that it cannot be defended by a Special card. No restrictions written on the Special card pertain to negates. Therefore, a male character can negate Kiss of Death, even if he is the target of the attack

this is a little too lawyer-y for me to understand...why exactly can a male negate it when it says cannot be defended by a male hero?  there's not much getting around that the negate is played defensively, therefore 'defending'.

[Jesse]

...why exactly can a male negate it when it says cannot be defended by a male hero?  there's not much getting around that the negate is played defensively, therefore 'defending'.

I'm wondering the same thing....to me a 'negate' is a defensive action and therefore a male is a no go....

[mattkoz]

Are you only inquiring about using a negate as a defensive action?

I interpret it so that it could not be negated on the defensive by a male (i.e. "not defended by a male"), but it could be allowed to hit and then negated on a subsequent offensive turn by a male.

[Bios]

Its getting more complicated by the time... If a rulebook, a specials guide and a list of erratas weren't enough, now we also need to look at a QnA list that often contradicts the meta rules?

Meta rule #58 is clear enough to me and I understand that Kiss of Death cannot be negated by a male character, regardless of his sexual orientation.

[Demacus]

I'm with Koz on this one.  If the attack is in the process of being defended, male characters may not attribute to it's defense.  After the hit has landed, any character COULD negate/remove it, provided they have a card that allows them to do so.

[BigBadHarve]

I would argue that no, it cannot. Despite that quote (which may or may not pre-date an official ruling to the contrary), my understanding was that defense restrictions block all relevant defenses. A negate played by a male shouldn't stop that card.

Of course, logic and consistency seem to get chucked into the bin with this game so very often. It's much like the argument for using a shift special to move a JW attack. You're not actually defending the attack, just shifting, but the special can't be played. Even though the rules (at the time) clearly stated that a shift was NOT considered to be a defense. (I was shot down when I brought that one up to a judge at a tournament)

Reavers, however, are a team card therefore considered neuter, so you could use the Reavers to negate it.

Koz is right, though, regardless of the defensive issue - taking the hit and removing it is legal in any circumstance, because that's not a defense.

-BBH

[Jesse]

I'm with Koz on this one.  If the attack is in the process of being defended, male characters may not attribute to it's defense.  After the hit has landed, any character COULD negate/remove it, provided they have a card that allows them to do so.

Whats the grey area on this though? IMO removing the card from your permanent record or offensivley negating it is still defending against that card and IMO that would be a no no for a male.....

[Demacus]

You are only defending if the card is currently in the process of being played as an attack.  After the attack hits, it's no longer an attack, simply a hit in the current/permanent record, and thus can be removed by anyone because removing is not a defense, it's an offensive action, whether the remove is via a negate, or an AL special.

[Nostalgic]

I'm with Koz on this one.  If the attack is in the process of being defended, male characters may not attribute to it's defense.  After the hit has landed, any character COULD negate/remove it, provided they have a card that allows them to do so.

Whats the grey area on this though? IMO removing the card from your permanent record or offensivley negating it is still defending against that card and IMO that would be a no no for a male.....

Huh? 

A defensive action prevents the attack from affecting the intended target. Once an attack has landed it can only be removed if its a duration thing, negated, or 'healed' from through an event or special.

[Jesse]

I understand the "wording" I just personally don't agree with it. I think if it says no male it should literally stay no male. I think using an offensive negate is getting around the intent of the card....

[Demacus]

It would be similar to Robin's Insignia Dart.  You can only defend it with a card containing an Intellect icon.  After it hits though, any negate can undo it.  If that wasn't the case, BA's would dominate the game to a much greater level.  Sure they only hit for 3 dmg, but a spectrum would be super easy with the right teammates.

Where is the opposite of Kiss of Death anyways?  Why didn't Gambit get a Lady Killer special?  Make it a 3I that cannot be defended by a female character.

[Jesse]

It would be similar to Robin's Insignia Dart.  You can only defend it with a card containing an Intellect icon.  After it hits though, any negate can undo it.  If that wasn't the case, BA's would dominate the game to a much greater level.  Sure they only hit for 3 dmg, but a spectrum would be super easy with the right teammates.

Where is the opposite of Kiss of Death anyways?  Why didn't Gambit get a Lady Killer special?  Make it a 3I that cannot be defended by a female character.

I know and I know there will always be loopholes, I just don't have to enjoy them 

as for the Gambit special I would totally agree on that - it would have been a perfect card for him

[Demacus]

Right???  If anybody deserves the flip side to Kiss of Death, he's the best candidate.

[Jesse]

Right???  If anybody deserves the flip side to Kiss of Death, he's the best candidate.

I'm sure there are more that could work (not as well)...I mean there are literally generations of man whores in the comics..lol....but Gambit was a smooth ladies man.....i see a custom from ncann in the future, lol.

[Nostalgic]

I understand the "wording" I just personally don't agree with it. I think if it says no male it should literally stay no male. I think using an offensive negate is getting around the intent of the card....

I think the intent is the guaranteed hit, which should be set up to finish a character off.  After it hits though its like anything else.

Oh and I think poison ivey could have also warrented such a card.