I asked this question over at the Overpower facebook page but I was hoping to get more opinions on these forums.
When you play a "BW" special (ie Iron Man Industrial Waste or Super Skrull Alien Fire), are you allowed to see all the cards your opponent has to discard into the dead pile?
I asked because I had that card played against me and I discarded one at a time revealing each card to both of us, but when I played it against my friend he was not happy and discarded all of them at once without either of us seeing them. I was going to say you have to show me the cards but then I didn't know if there was an official rule about that and let him have his way.
Im pretty sure your opponent should let you see the cards being discarded into the deadpile. Not sure though, as i never used a card like that in a tournament deck.
According to the official rules, you must show the face of any card you discard (any time you discard). So, yeah, if you mill your opponent's draw pile into the dead pile, he has to show them to you.
-BBH
Thanks for the input guys. Nice to have that question put to rest.
I have another discard question.
What do you do about specials like "remove one hit from permanent record" that come up in the first hand? The discard phase is before the placing phase. Do you have to discard if you have no intention of placing it? Or can you keep it and use it for bluffing purposes? Technically, it only becomes unusable after the placing phase of the round which comes after discarding. Are you forced to either place or discard it?
This isn't the only type of special that would fall into this category in the first hand, but it was the easiest example I could think of. I guess this could also come up in later hands if there were no hits on your heroes permanent records.
Scratch my original idea. The meta rule is clear in this matter.
So, similarly, if it was the opening hand and my turn first...
if I have an AI-coded special in hand (opp/target must discard a placed card)
I place some other Special card (taking up my spot to place the AI)
And my opponent then waives his right to place anything
(making the AI unusable)
Am I not required to discard the AI at that point (since Discard Phase is over)?
It seems like I should be able to keep it at that point.
I thought you can only keep cards in your hand if you can make it playable with the cards available to you in the battle.
QuoteMeta #32: If conditions are such that the card cannot be played this battle unless the opponent performs some action, then the card must be placed or discarded as unusable. If the player holds cards that can create the situation by which the card would be playable, then it can be kept in hand.
Another question about placing v. discarding:
In this example, I've put 2 specials in my deck for my reserve character; an Avoid 1 attack and a 8 EFS OPD.
I draw the Avoid before the OPD, but the player is in reserve. I'd rather not place the Avoid and "block" the OPD -- for fear of drawing that OPD in the next hand and having no place to put it or way to play it. Does this mean I have to discard it?
Maybe an avoid is a bad example because my opponent might have some way of attacking the reserve which would make it playable from my hand, but hopefully you can get the gist of my question.
You have a choice if the card is not usable: discard or place. If you don't discard it, you must place it.
Yeah, I thought about that Meta Rule after I made my post. It should be discarded afterall, it's the only simple rule for all card types. I still don't agree with it. Specials should be treated differently. Especially when it comes to the reserve and all the cards that were introduced after the first set that could target the reserve or cause places to be switched.
what about my question, then? would I have to choose to discard or place the AI during the Discard Phase, then?
(if my opponent has no placed cards during the Discard phase)
I'd say yes, you would have to discard/place it if your opponent has no placed cards.
Quote from: Jack on August 06, 2011, 07:07:05 PM
I'd say yes, you would have to discard/place it if your opponent has no placed cards.
that seems like a real bummer. So, immediately after I draw my cards, anything I draw has to be immediately playable from that point, essentially?
Quote from: mattkoz on August 06, 2011, 11:29:10 AM
Another question about placing v. discarding:
In this example, I've put 2 specials in my deck for my reserve character; an Avoid 1 attack and a 8 EFS OPD.
I draw the Avoid before the OPD, but the player is in reserve. I'd rather not place the Avoid and "block" the OPD -- for fear of drawing that OPD in the next hand and having no place to put it or way to play it. Does this mean I have to discard it?
...
This was never directly answered by anyone, and when I was reading through the rules and meta rules, I thought of this posting...
If you have to determine the playability of cards at the moment of drawing them, and their playability cannot depend on your opponent's actions, that would mean you would
never be allowed to keep
any avoids in your hand, since you can't know that your opponent will actually attack you with anything...
So, Jack, your response here:
Quote from: Jack on August 06, 2011, 11:41:25 AM
You have a choice if the card is not usable: discard or place. If you don't discard it, you must place it.
wasn't talking about avoids too, was it Jack? have I
still, after all this time, been playing Overpower with a wrong rule? :o
You keep avoids in your hand because your opponent has at least 1 playable card in his possession, either placed or in hand. There is a chance (> 0%) that any 1 of those cards could be used as some form of attack.
I'm sure one could argue the case where: player B has no cards placed or in hand (or simply has pass his turn) and player A draws an Avoid, you would have to discard that avoid as unusable.
Quote from: Jack on January 25, 2013, 05:21:05 PM
You keep avoids in your hand because your opponent has at least 1 playable card in his possession, either placed or in hand. There is a chance (> 0%) that any 1 of those cards could be used as some form of attack.
I'm sure one could argue the case where: player B has no cards placed or in hand (or simply has pass his turn) and player A draws an Avoid, you would have to discard that avoid as unusable.
well, it's not even as remote as that. I've played many hands holding a personal avoid for somebody that never gets played because the attacks go to other people.
if the "playability" of a card cannot depend on actions taken by your opponent, then you can't really keep any defense-only cards in your hand. even if you have a Spawn-type avoid, what if a player is using Venture+ deck, and/or only attacks your battlesite?
don't get me wrong, I'm not at all advocating this measure. as matter of fact, I'm hoping to show that defensively played cards should not fall under this rule. otherwise, I'm afraid there is a big problem.
I'm not the rules guy or anything like that... but it would stand to reason that because any frontline character can play their specials, then avoids fall under the category of specials that can be potentially played because each frontliner is able to be attacked. Reservists aren't active during the battle unless another circumstance makes them active, so at the time of discarding, their cards aren't playable, whereas a frontline characters cards are ALL playable at this time. From a logical standpoint, that seems a reasonable evaluation
But there are characters who CAN attack the reserve character. Battlesites could bring those possibilities even if the opponenets team does not. I would think the Avoid 1 for the reserve character should be allowed to be kept, just like an Avoid for any of the Frontline characters. You NEVER truly know if you'll need defense until the time of the attack where it could be used.
Has anyone ever toyed with the idea of not discarding unusable cards? I guess you wouldn't venture big too often, but has anyone ever played that way? Lots of confusion would be eliminated...
I remember a time before it was mandatory to discard unsusables, at least in non-tourney play. We had a buddy who insisted we play by tourney rules, so every time the rules updated, so did our play style, but initially, there was a period WAY back when you could hang onto cards for bluffing purposes.
I remember when that rule change came down the pipe, one of my other friends almost blew a gasket because hanging onto cards for bluffing purposes was half of his game. We never put cards that didn't belong in a deck, but if a character died before his cards came up, those were now just in your hand to make it look like you might still have plays left, and after you passed once, it made it appear that you were holding a hand of just defense, which was almost scarier to be sitting across from, lol.
IF discarding unsusables was always there from the first tournament, then it just took a while to reach us where we played, cause none of my group ever went to a tournement, we just had one guy who insisted that we use the tourney rules, just in case any of us did go to a tournement.
I remember when they first announced Beyonder and his "May play any special cards" I.A. I was so stoked that I went home that night and threw together a deck of all of my best duplicate specials, in preparation for his launch. And when we each did get our copy of Beyonder, and found out that he came with his own rules, "Can only play teammate specials, can not play OPD specials, counted as 28 points for deckbuilding" that was the end of using Beyonder... lol