So, with this http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=159.0
incredibly informative piece of behind-the-scenes-type article, Ranerdar and I came up with an interesting idea for Universe cards.
First of all, we like the idea of using BU cards. They're such a fun concept, but they just aren't competetive enough. So, we kick around using other ideas like damage/venture, or DTR, but when we saw what Universe cards were in the old Power Players game, it had us thinking of using a BU for a prolonged effect.
So, thinking this out, let's say I'm holding a dumpster. If you're shooting at me, I can hold this up and deflect or absorb bullets with it. Lots of bullets, potentially. But if I chuck it at your skull, I would no longer be able to defend myself with it.
...
So, What if a Universe card gave you a defensive bonus that was for the "remainder of battle" bonus for defense, but as soon as you used it offensively, it was gone?
1. So, you attack me with Blockbuster (7S), and I use a lv.4 Str PC with my Dumpster to defend, then the dumpster stays right next to me.
2. On my turn I play something like, Tactical Computer (draw 1 card).
3. Then your next attack is Arc Light (7A), and I defend with a lv.5 Str PC (again, using my Dumpster).
4. Then, on my turn, I decide to hurl the dumpster at your noggin with a lv.6 Str PC, for a 9 - and my Dumpster is now out of play.
5. Now, when you play your Harpoon (5E) I have no dumpster to help me defend.
It would make the BU cards particularly useful for defense. It would still cost card advantage offensively, and it'd be a whole lot more fun to imagine!
Thoughts?
Interesting. It makes sense for the dumpster, less so for the crossbow... ;)
It definitely helps some with card advantage if the BU card could be used more than once. You might have to modify it so that the BU is returned to your hand if used for defense unless it's is placed to a specific character. Otherwise the opponent will just attack another character so they don't have to deal with the bonus. I realize if the oppent did this it would still give you the offensive option with the card which may be good enough.
You could also try allowing the BU bonus to count for venture total if an attack or defensive action is successful. This would mean though you're combining two cards for one action (risky), both cards wil have a relavent affect on the battle. A special that removes the current battle hit wouldn't affect the BU venture total bonus.
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:47:15 PM
I thought I would expand of the BU idea I mentioned. ;)
Universe cards would count for venture if defended with a special card that doesn't specifically avoid universe attacks or any defense that doesn't combine/use 2 cards for defense.
So if I play a level 5 fighting power card together with the 7 fighting to use BU "machine gun" for a level 8 fighting attack and you defend it with a level 8 fighting power card,the attack is blocked but the +3 remains to count for venture total. The same would apply if you used an 'avoid 1 attack' or 'teammate may avoid 1 attack' special. If you block the level 8 universe attack with a tactic doubleshot, training /basic universe + power card, shift the attack with a special then avoid it, etc the entire attack is stopped and no bonus to venture. The point is to "completely" block a 2 card attack you have to use a 2 card defense.
On the defensive side if you were to block an attack (like a level 7/8 AQ special) with a BU+3 combined with the 5 power card, the +3 bonus is added to venture total. If you used that same power card and BU to block a level 4 energy power card combined with a +4 training universe it would defeat the attack but wouldn't add to venture.
To add a different wrinkle to training cards you could allow them to be used twice with a similar mechanic to what you mentioned for BUs. They could be used either offensively, defensively or once each. A character would play the attack or defense as normal and then the card would be returned to your hand, or be left on the table to show it had been used. The only stipulation is to use them twice they have to use a different power type for the 2nd attack/defense than the first. I think it would be kind of cool to have a character attacked twice by a teamwork card and use the two different power types on the training card to make 2 separate defenses before having to toss it. (makes multipower cards more attractive :))
AM specials would still have an advantage as their bonus could be used to council out the BU venture bonus as well as remaining in play. These cards could even be allowed to add to venture if still in play at the end of a battle if it helps with usefulness. Another special that may have an impact on this are the AK specials. Perhaps they should double the venture bonus basic universe cards count for.
I think both of these rules would help the 6 and under characters/teams. It would increase their card pool so there would be less potential duplication and it would help with defense against the high end attacks. My thought is the more high powered teams would still be less likely time use this as much because of the 'better' options they already have. Even if they did it still widens the cards/potential strategy for everyone.
What do you think?
I like the concept of trying to balance the 2cards used vs. 2cards used, but it seems extra complicated.
By the way, when I mentioned that the character would get the bonus, I meant specifically that the Universe would then be in play "on" that character, so if that deters your opponent from attacking that character, that's just a bonus, in my view. Besides, in the comic books, how many times did you ever see Deadpool hand his gun off to another person?
(also, I figure if a Crossbow can be used to defend at all, it must be as some kind of deterrent, right? so it still works in context here :))
Quote from: ncannelora on March 24, 2011, 08:12:23 PM
By the way, when I mentioned that the character would get the bonus, I meant specifically that the Universe would then be in play "on" that character, so if that deters your opponent from attacking that character, that's just a bonus, in my view. Besides, in the comic books, how many times did you ever see Deadpool hand his gone off to another person?
(also, I figure if a Crossbow can be used to defend at all, it must be as some kind of deterrent, right? so it still works in context here :))
That's true. ;D In that case it seems sort of like expanding the AM special to more characters similar to an 'any hero'.
I viewed the universe card bonus to venture to be like collateral damage to the other team. I think it may have been harder for me to explain than it would be in practice. :P
I was thinking about this more, and it seems like it could be simplified further to just say that Basic Universe and Training cards could stay in play on a person for the remainder of battle, for offense and defense. It would make them supremely more playable (particularly since they'd have to be allowed defensive play) and a lot more fun, I think.
Thoughts?
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 07:47:21 AM
I'll go ahead and take this question ;D
upon a closer look, it might give the max-8 characters too much power. Truly. When I considered "Sinister Creation" for X-man (a card I put in every X-Man deck), I realized that this proposed treatment of Basic Universe cards would be too good, with no negative stipulation to balance it out. And I don't think that "everyone can do it, so it's balanced" is a good argument here, since not everyone can use three different +3 Basic Universe cards, the way a max-8 can.
So, with that in mind, I'd say this whole "bonus stays for battle" is actually too much for the BUs. For the Training cards, however...
This actually seems like a great alternative to the Grid altering Artifacts (Serpent Crown, Super Soldier Serum, etc). Everyone has access to at least 2 training cards that give separate +4 bonuses. With only a few exceptions, it's also only ever going to get you up to a 9 for output (offense or defense) matching it to the "Avoid 9 or less" mojo.
Also, the Training cards make more sense, even, than the Basic Universe cards - in the context of a real fight. If I'm employing some recent training I've undergone, why wouldn't I be able to use said training for an entire battle?
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 10:47:28 AM
Quote from: ncannelora on June 06, 2011, 04:17:44 PM
Also, the Training cards make more sense, even, than the Basic Universe cards - in the context of a real fight. If I'm employing some recent training I've undergone, why wouldn't I be able to use said training for an entire battle?
Good point.
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 01:47:33 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on June 06, 2011, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on June 06, 2011, 04:17:44 PM
Also, the Training cards make more sense, even, than the Basic Universe cards - in the context of a real fight. If I'm employing some recent training I've undergone, why wouldn't I be able to use said training for an entire battle?
Good point.
Thanks.
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:47:41 PM
I'm so happy that I'm a willing participant in a fun discussion, even if it's with myself! LOL :D
lol...good stuff
BBHs house rules make bu's and trainings go into the power pack. that helps a ton to making them more playable.
your method sounds good too...have you done any testing to see how it works out?
I think one of the easiest and simplest ways to make basic universe cards useful and not hurt card advantage so much is to make it so the player draws 1 card to replace it after playing it. You run the risk of getting a dupe or an unplayable card, but you have the chance to not take a hit on card advantage just for that one bigger attack or defense.
Quote from: NickW on June 06, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
I think one of the easiest and simplest ways to make basic universe cards useful and not hurt card advantage so much is to make it so the player draws 1 card to replace it after playing it. You run the risk of getting a dupe or an unplayable card, but you have the chance to not take a hit on card advantage just for that one bigger attack or defense.
As many people here know, I play a 'recycling' rule with Basic Universe, Training and Doubleshot cards. Meaning that once played they are recycled into the power pack. It makes them more useful, without tipping the balance. It also doesn't make aspects like MojoWorld or X-mansion redundant.
Playing Doubleshots so that they can also defend the entire team, not just the one character, also makes them immensely valuable. There's a lot of controversy around here about their usefulness, but I love 'em. One of the first things I look for in a team is whether or not it can support a doubleshot or two.
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on June 06, 2011, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: NickW on June 06, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
I think one of the easiest and simplest ways to make basic universe cards useful and not hurt card advantage so much is to make it so the player draws 1 card to replace it after playing it. You run the risk of getting a dupe or an unplayable card, but you have the chance to not take a hit on card advantage just for that one bigger attack or defense.
As many people here know, I play a 'recycling' rule with Basic Universe, Training and Doubleshot cards. Meaning that once played they are recycled into the power pack. It makes them more useful, without tipping the balance. It also doesn't make aspects like MojoWorld or X-mansion redundant.
Playing Doubleshots so that they can also defend the entire team, not just the one character, also makes them immensely valuable. There's a lot of controversy around here about their usefulness, but I love 'em. One of the first things I look for in a team is whether or not it can support a doubleshot or two.
-BBH
For sure, I love DoubleShots too! and not just 'cause my man, Gambit is featured on a couple!
I do like the recycling notion. Also the DTR. I was just drawing on some inspiration from the Power Players info, noted at the top. We haven't playtested, but Ranerdar and I will at some point this week, I'm guessing (even if it's not actually until Saturday). I'll post more thoughts (and possibly my own rebuttles) at that point :)
Congratulations to ncannelora for reaching 500 posts and becoming a HERO member!!! BBH you're just 1 more post away!
It seems that you both supply a lot of game knowledge and feedback to this site!
Quote from: Oscorp on June 06, 2011, 09:38:16 PM
Congratulations to ncannelora for reaching 500 posts and becoming a HERO member!!! BBH you're just 1 more post away!
It seems that you both supply a lot of game knowledge and feedback to this site!
THANKS! i don't have nearly as much knowledge as some of the other contributors, but my love of this game is as mighty as Thor!
I'd love to see something to tweak BUs. Until a few years ago, my very small group played with BUs as counting for damage. Fixing that error certainly made our characters live longer, but I miss using the cards.
I don't know if drawing to replace or the power pack or something else is the answer, but I would love to tweak them somewhat.
If only they had a 'durability' value. What if they stayed on the player for the inverse of the bonus? Then +3s could only be used once but a +1 could be used three times. I'm not sure if that's still too power, but I think it could work.
Has anyone flirted with the idea of having Basic Universe/Training cards as one-battle stat boosts, similar to Absorbing Man's Molecular Mimc?
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/39.png)
It would make a good case to use Power Blast in a deck (finally).
(http://overpower.ca/cards/basic_universe/1.png)
Quote from: Jack on June 08, 2011, 01:55:22 PM
Has anyone flirted with the idea of having Basic Universe/Training cards as one-battle stat boosts, similar to Absorbing Man's Molecular Mimc?
Yeah, that's another good idea!
You could make them playable on their own, where the combine is just an option. This way it helps alleviate the card advantage problem.
So for example Jubilee has an Energy Enhancer BU placed. Opponent targets her with a level 2 Power card. She plays the BU by itself defensively 0+3 = 3 so it blocks the level 2 Power card attack.
Or she could choose to take the Hit then throws her level 6E power card plus the BU for a 9E attack on the next turn.
It's not a perfect fix but it would give them a little more flexability, which certainly wouldn't hurt.
And if you decide to let them count for damage as well, now you'd actual have a quite usable card if you combined with the standalone play rule.
Quote from: The Dude on June 24, 2011, 08:20:52 PM
You could make them playable on their own, where the combine is just an option. This way it helps alleviate the card advantage problem.
So for example Jubilee has an Energy Enhancer BU placed. Opponent targets her with a level 2 Power card. She plays the BU by itself defensively 0+3 = 3 so it blocks the level 2 Power card attack.
Or she could choose to take the Hit then throws her level 6E power card plus the BU for a 9E attack on the next turn.
It's not a perfect fix but it would give them a little more flexability, which certainly wouldn't hurt.
And if you decide to let them count for damage as well, now you'd actual have a quite usable card if you combined with the standalone play rule.
honestly, i like this idea so much i'm surprised i never thought of it!
hawkman+forge+absorbing man+mr.fantastic= :)
(http://www.overpower.ca/cards/characters/1.jpg)(http://www.overpower.ca/cards/characters/106.jpg)(http://www.overpower.ca/cards/characters/124.jpg)
(http://www.overpower.ca/cards/characters/192.jpg)
imagine a m in front getting a +4 strength attack(11)
or hawkman with a 12 strength attack
or mr.fantastic with a12 intellect attack
i might make it with regular rules
I was going to start a new thread, but it will probably be combined with this one anyway. ;)
Came up with a simple way to add BUs and TUs to the mix that addresses card advantage and makes them a bit more tactical.
When using these rules the minimum decks size becomes 60.
A minimum of 3 BU cards and 1 training card must be put under the team's homebase location card. These cards are shuffled and treated as a separate environment deck (universe pack?). (Name distinction made to separate it from the main draw pile and battlesite deck.) There is no limit to the number of Basic/Training universe cards you can put in the environment deck as long as there are no duplicates.
These cards can be accessed in 3 ways.
The first way is if you have to discard at least 1 card from your hand due to duplicate or unusable cards. After you've discarded you can draw 1 card from the environment deck.
The second way you can access this deck is if the opponent ventures more than 2 missions. Any combination of the additional cards drawn can come from the draw pile or the environment deck.
The final way to access this deck is through any special card that lets you draw cards from the draw pile. These include AT, HQ, LO, and CS specials. If the special allows you to draw multiple cards then any combination may come from the draw pile or environment deck. So if you play a HQ special you could draw 2 cards from the draw pile and 1 from the environment deck or vice versa.
I could see these cards being discarded to any one of the 3 discard piles depending on your point of view.
i have been throwing ideas back and forth with Alex about how to give love to basic/training universe cards.
reading some of these ideas... if we combined a ruling set for the special effects of universe cards it could make them very viable.
i was also thinking about an updated idea to the universe cards... to gain meaningful effect from both anyone like Domino or Strong Guys special BS
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1339.png)
ok i think this would be more fair... if you block an attack from opponent using a universe card with the exact same value... the universe card hits opponent for the +1 +2 +3 +4 for damage against, but the power card goes back to the dead pile.
so this way if you play those people in your deck with that special, say opponent does a 5+3 power+universe attack, you block with 5+3, the (BS) special makes the 5 stick to opponent, and the universe special effect makes the +3 stick for damage as well.
keeps it distinct enough so it doesn't run over eachothers toes.
but then i think most people would only pack +3 and +4's in the deck, and +1 and +2 wouldn't be utilized.
hmm even one last idea.. what if you block higher than opponent and you use the exact same universe card bonus... then it can be used as a special effect to do the damage to opponent back? seems like a decent risk/reward and giving that extra fluff for universe cards? so say opponent does a 5+3 attack, you block with 6+3, the 3 damage of your universe card hits opponent back. seems like the most balanced way?
trying to think as well for Gambit/Vision/Mr.Fantastic special to make it more sought out for support.
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/471.png)
i was also thinking if your universe card bonus is higher than the attackers that you block with an equal or greater value, your universe hits opponent for damage. so +1 bonus could become a +2 with special, +2 bonus a +4, a +3 bonus a +6, a +4 bonus a +8.
the more use of universe cards... it would also make some cards worthwhile on heros to use again like avoid one attack made with a universe card. etc
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1296.png)
just lots of ideas... concoct and narrow it down to be the most fair, adds more utility for universe cards and all related cards. risk vs reward, if you make sloppy attacks and opponent is ready to drop kick you with your back turned, you should get a slight penalty :)
and the great thing about this... it doesn't overlap any cards... creating a niche. its own place.
so they can all seamlessly weave to create unique effects that all can mingle, nothing overrides.
I've been giving your ideas quite a bit of thought, and it does seen like a very good idea. I'm now even thinking of making MultiPower versions of Universe cards to make the all-round characters more useful too.
So, to recap, if a basic universe card is used defensively, the basic universe card will hit the opponent if the value of the defense (including the bonus) exactly equals the value of the attack. This hit counts to damage, but not to venture total.
Should be some benefit for using it offensively as well? Or would basic universe cards be one of the few cards that really benefits from only being used defensively, since everything else (like Teamwork, Ally, DoubleShots) is only good offensively?
PSYLOCKE: BETSY BRADDOCK E: 6 F: 3 S: 2 I: 5 (16)
~ Psylocke's Basic Universe cards count toward Damage and Venture Total. ~
i think the direction we have went will work you still can get their effects fine without overlapping
keep universe cards without the ability to add venture, unless stated specifically by a card.
two with someone like Psylocke, she can do damage and venture with basic universe cards without having to rely on the block mechanic. so she still gains a positive benefit with her passive, so this rule is not stripping her of anything, and keeping it all niche.
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1386.png)
even for the homebase locations cards from Mojo World and The Outback.
TV DIMENSION (B2) <XM> {U} [OPD]
For remainder of game, Mojoworld's team may draw 1 card from top of Draw Pile immediately after playing any Basic Universe card. Discard if duplicate.
PIRATE TECHNOLOGY (A5) <XM> {U} [OPD]
The Outback's team's Basic Universe cards used to attack count toward Damage and Venture Total for remainder of game
and i think thats why we probably shouldn't allow basic universe cards to last for the entire battle, with mojo world you could create unfair drawing power and overload opponent.
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/126.png)
* Will there be inconsistency due to the fact that Teamwork cards are also called "Universe cards" and therefore, for consistency purposes, shouldn't they also count towards damage? *
well i think teamwork cards are powerful enough, they cant be used to defend with, so i think they should be exempt from the normal universe cards special property of blocking with for damage reflection.
i feel basic/training universe cards should apply to defense from all universe cards including teamwork for the special effect.
i am just fine with this property bonus effecting normal universe cards and training universe cards only.
well i think it would still be balanced... most teams should have 1 or 2 8 stats, and between the cards you get... people still would have to pick/choose... even if opponent does hit 8+3 it might be unblockable for my 6, but the tradeoff is now i can swing with a high or low attack after that... if he does a weak attack after he expends his big attacks, say his next attack is a 5+2, i block with 6+2 and he also catches. and my 6's or teammates might be able to avoid that attack as well, setting him off at a card disadvantage and wasting his biggest attack first. i still think it would be reasonable. you could play weak attacks, forcing him to block, take them, or think you have a weak hand, when he does a medium attack, save your big cards to deal damage to him for example. he thinks you have a bad hand... he plays a 5+2, but you bring out a 5+4. under this rule idea, he would take the +4 training universe damage for failing and underestimating you.
gives people another degree of strategy, you just cant attack everything without impunity. you have to be careful still :)
i still think this may be the easiest and fairest way to bring those cards playable into the game. simplify is the name of the game.
i think recycling them into the power pack is fair, they are nothing game breaking or changing like special cards, teamworks, etc all those other special cards.
maybe recreate the training cards and add new tiers for those i mentioned before, and/or add a minor damage component if they hit? so say +3 fighting or energy does a 1 fighting or energy damage. +4 energy or fighting adds 2 fighting or energy damage. +5 fighting or energy does a 3 fighting or energy damage, +6 fighting or energy does a 4 fighting or energy damage. for example
how about this upgrade to training cards?
5 Strength or less to use . . . +3 and +4 bonus... normally
add this feature for a new card strictly for 6's? double requirement again
5 Strength/Fighting or less to use... +6 to Strength/Fighting stat bonus
Highest Stat = 6
5 Strength/Fighting or less to use +5 to Strength/Fighting stat bonus
Highest Stat = 7
could scrap the 7 maybe, and just give +5 and +6 to 6's only?
so for example
8's could use a +4 bonus to a 5 power card or less = 9
7's could use a +5 bonus to a 5 power card or less = 10
6's could use a +6 bonus to a 5 power card or less = 11
basic universe spectrum
6's use a +3 bonus to a 6 power card = 9
7's use a +3 bonus to a 7 power card = 10
8's use a +3 bonus to a 8 power card = 11
and maybe to equalize universe cards maybe add a restriction to the basics... the 6 is only useable by 6's, 7's by 7's and 8 by 8's so 8's dont get a 6 card use advantage to a 6 for example.
Just wondering if any of the tournament holders could consider any of these rule changes. I like the idea of making BU cards more useful also character specials involving universe cards being more useful.
Quote from: TheGeneral on January 21, 2014, 11:04:10 AM
Just wondering if any of the tournament holders could consider any of these rule changes. I like the idea of making BU cards more useful also character specials involving universe cards being more useful.
Unfortunately not for the K2 Challenge in March.
Simple is best.
Offensively, a basic universe card combined with a power card will count for numerical damage but not venture total if defended by a single card defense. The exception to this would be if a card specifically defeats a universe card attack.
Example: Player 1 attacks with a level 5 strength power card combined with the 6+3 to use dumpster BU for a level 8 strength attack. Player 2 plays an 'avoid 1 attack' special. The 5 is discarded and BU is left on the defending character as 3 points of damage but doesn't count toward spectrum KO. (Reminds me of the fighting video games when you block an attack but still lose a fraction of life. 8) )
Defensively, a basic universe card combined with a power card will count toward venture total only if its numerical value is equal to the value of the attack.
These 2 rules save and enhance the usefulness of the AD, HC, BX, and AK specials shown above. They also work with my 'environment deck' idea.
Edit: BTW I think the AK special should double either the damage or venture bonus, depending on the situation, for the remainder of the battle.
I don't think anyone said this specifically, but I've always thought that the easiest way to make BU's useful would be to have them active for the duration of the battle.
If a character plays a BU card, it's placed on the character with the attack that's made, and remains on that character until (1) a power card attack using that BU/TU is defeated, (2) the BU/TU is used defensively, or (3) end of battle. I think this would solve the problem entirely.
I think that you'd need to go through the specials that effect BUs, and meta them - for example, Molecular Mimic and the Thing Card that were posted in the thread would "use" the BU, the card that doubles the universe bonus would not, but I think that would get the card to where it needs to be to remain viable.
I also proposed in a different thread that the game add 6/7/8 + 4 and a 8+5 OPD BU - I'm not necessarily suggesting these two fixes together, but this is my two cents on the issue.
Quote from: teesaw on January 27, 2014, 09:00:27 AM
I don't think anyone said this specifically, but I've always thought that the easiest way to make BU's useful would be to have them active for the duration of the battle.
If a character plays a BU card, it's placed on the character with the attack that's made, and remains on that character until (1) a power card attack using that BU/TU is defeated, (2) the BU/TU is used defensively, or (3) end of battle. I think this would solve the problem entirely.
This basically makes BU/TUs like AM specials. I don't think those specials get much use either since they don't affect venture and only help 1 character situationally. Also it doesn't address the primary problem which is the card advantage issue. When you play a universe card with a power card and its defended you're down a card. If you block a single card attack with power card combined with a universe card you're down a card. I wanted to address that problem without using the 'draw to replace' mechanic.
Quote from: teesaw
I think that you'd need to go through the specials that effect BUs, and meta them - for example, Molecular Mimic and the Thing Card that were posted in the thread would "use" the BU, the card that doubles the universe bonus would not, but I think that would get the card to where it needs to be to remain viable.
I also proposed in a different thread that the game add 6/7/8 + 4 and a 8+5 OPD BU - I'm not necessarily suggesting these two fixes together, but this is my two cents on the issue.
Did a quick search for specials with the word 'universe' in them.
Now that I think about it the BX specials make me look at the offensive side of what I suggested in a different way. I don't like the idea of the BU/TU being 'better' than the AE specials or double shots. I say this because under the proposed rule you can play a BU/TU combined attack and still do
damage if it's blocked. (Though may that's the level we have to go to for enough incentive to play these cards... :P)
So here's the change...
Offensively, BU/TU cards are added to venture but not damage if defended by a single card defense. If you attack with a BU/TU and its not defended at all both the power card and the BU/TU count venture total, but only the power card counts toward damage. Under this senario the BX special would basically double universe card's venture bonus.
The Molecular Mimic card is unaffected by the rules I mentioned. Defensively, BU/TU would work as I mentioned earlier.
I don't like the idea of adding extra BUs to the game.
While I don't agree that they would basically be AM specials, I concede that this my suggestion might not be the easiest fix.
Quote from: Nostalgic on January 27, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
So here's the change...
Offensively, BU/TU cards are added to venture but not damage if defended by a single card defense.
If they're defended, they count toward venture? I'm not sure I follow.
Quote from: Nostalgic on January 27, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
If you attack with a BU/TU and its not defended at all both the power card and the BU/TU count venture total, but only the power card counts toward damage.
I like this part by itself. Basically saying "BU/TU hits from current battle are discarded after venture is calculated, or when one player concedes, and do not count toward cumulative or spectrum K.O."
Quote from: teesaw on January 27, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
While I don't agree that they would basically be AM specials, I concede that this my suggestion might not be the easiest fix.
Quote from: Nostalgic on January 27, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
So here's the change...
Offensively, BU/TU cards are added to venture but not damage if defended by a single card defense.
If they're defended, they count toward venture? I'm not sure I follow.
Here's the example. A 4 energy power card combined with the 6+2 power lines BU for a level 6 energy attack. The opponent defends the attack with a
single level 6 fighting power card. The damage is stopped and the power card is discarded to the power pack. However, the 6+2 BU is left in place and adds +2 to venture total for the remainder of the battle. (I call this the 'collateral damage rule'. ;))
If the same level 6 energy attack was defended with a doubleshot/BU/TU + a power card, or shifted with a special card and blocked then both the BU and the power card would have been discarded. The only difference is that
two cards were used in the defense.
This addresses the card advantage issue because though the attack is stopped, you still get the venture bonus so both cards are useful in the attack, one with a lasting affect if defended. It makes these universe cards truly unique and hopefully appealing.
* The exception to this would be a AD special that says 'Avoid 1 attack made with a Universe card.' Those specials would defeat the attack and stop the venture bonus without needing a 2nd card.