Not sure if this is the best topic... but there it goes!
DB Specials can be very confusing sometimes.
"Avoids all attacks from 1 Teamwork card, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card."
so I was thinking how to improve it and Morbius negate just gave me the idea:
"Negates the effects of any 1 Teamwork card, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card. May not be used to remove a Teamwork card hit."
What about it? Clear enough now?
Quote from: Bios on February 14, 2012, 07:40:02 PM
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DB Specials can be very confusing sometimes.
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LOL, this is good irony right here!
Quote from: Bios on February 14, 2012, 07:40:02 PM
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"Avoids all attacks from 1 Teamwork card, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card."
so I was thinking how to improve it and Morbius negate just gave me the idea:
"Negates the effects of any 1 Teamwork card, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card. May not be used to remove a Teamwork card hit."
What about it? Clear enough now?
I think the issue is still in the fact that you can't play a DB after dealing with the initial lv.6 attack some other way (e.g., letting it land, using a power card, etc.). A negate can always be played in the middle of a string of specials, unless those specials already can't be negated...
For example, if Banshee intends to play Death From Above, then his 4F (AA), then his 5I (JC), then his 11E (AS), I could play my negate at any point during that string to interrupt it and prevent the follow up actions.
So, how about something like this:
"Avoid the first attack from 1 Teamwork card and and prevent its follow up attacks, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card."
Quote from: ncannelora on February 14, 2012, 08:04:35 PM
So, how about something like this:
"Avoid the first attack from 1 Teamwork card and and prevent its follow up attacks, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card."
I like your choice. I guess simpler is better! But there is another issue to deal. Its not clear that DB specials can be used to defend all characters in your team. Want to give it another try?
Quote from: Bios on February 15, 2012, 06:35:09 PM
I like your choice. I guess simpler is better! But there is another issue to deal. Its not clear that DB specials can be used to defend all characters in your team. Want to give it another try?
good point. it does make it more wordy (since you're basically rolling the meta rule / errata text onto the card), but how about this?
"<Character> or teammate avoids the first attack from 1 Teamwork card and prevents its follow up attacks, or target character must discard 1 Placed Teamwork card."
Sounds good! And getting rid of a meta/errata is a plus!
So I can use the DB on my teammate? If you attack Wolvie with a teamwork, Elektra can stop it???
As far as I know, DBs can be used to protect any team mate.
Whoa.
whoa indeed ;)
takes em from unusable, to VERY-usable
Oh yeah... of course, they were good in battlesites, but now they're way awesome. I'm still learning new things about the rules.
for sure! In our circle, ESPECIALLY in Partners Play (http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/house-rules/partners-play!-(2-vs-2)/), Teamwork cards are a HUGE part of our game. consequently, Jubilee is actually used quite a bit since she offers superb defense at low cost ;)
Quote from: thetrooper27 on May 23, 2013, 01:13:56 AM
Oh yeah... of course, they were good in battlesites, but now they're way awesome. I'm still learning new things about the rules.
Definitely a good "new thing" to learn about this card. Its a shame that the card on its own doesn't really indicate it can be used this way. My friends' eyes lit up when I explained it was like a negate card but only against teamwork cards. Its a must card in my circle of friends since we're always using teamwork cards.
So you have to use this card immediately when the tw starts or what?
I think it should always take a power card along with it, otherwise your opponent could potentially use one of his tw cards to fish this special out.
Tw always require a follow up just like an ally card.
Something could be said about them being separate attacks...
Quote from: BasiliskFang on June 27, 2013, 09:55:07 PM...otherwise your opponent could potentially use one of his tw cards to fish this special out.
Then it's a renege.
Quote from: Jack on June 27, 2013, 10:41:21 PM
Quote from: BasiliskFang on June 27, 2013, 09:55:07 PM...otherwise your opponent could potentially use one of his tw cards to fish this special out.
Then it's a renege.
It's true. One of the genius points of the gameplay of Overpower is that you get to see every discard. It's pretty easy to work back on the 8-10 cards to know that a teamwork that was played (and DB'd) was not a legal play at the time :-\
So, any total answer to my questions above?
Quote from: BasiliskFang on June 28, 2013, 02:30:29 AM
So, any total answer to my questions above?
from this post?
Quote from: BasiliskFang on June 27, 2013, 09:55:07 PM
So you have to use this card immediately when the tw starts or what?
I think it should always take a power card along with it, otherwise your opponent could potentially use one of his tw cards to fish this special out.
Tw always require a follow up just like an ally card.
Something could be said about them being separate attacks...
I think DB cards are powerful enough, in that, they prevent a powerful attack. I don't think they should also take a Power card out with the Teamwork, no (which, btw, is one of the new rules in PowerBalance, which I don't think I like).
As for the Ally statement - it's true under normal circumstances, but still not absolute. If Gambit is my last character, and I have no Battlesite, and he's attacked with an Ally but uses Charm for defense, what happens to the Special card follow-up?
It seems to me that once an attack has been played and the opponent has opted however to deal with it (avoid, defend, or take the hit), you shouldn't be able to back up from there. It was mentioned that a negate could be played during a string at any time to negate the follow up actions. Using the Banshee example, if the 4F lands, then the 5I is played, can I go back and negate the 4F during the string and have any effect on the 11E being played after the 5I? I wasn't sure if I understood that post correctly...
I was thinking about the wording of the DB's...
"Use this special to avoid any teamwork attack against Elektra's team, cancelling any followups, or opponent must discard one teamwork card of Elektra's choice."
And thinking about the Gambit example, the circumstances of the Charm should break the standard rule about Ally followups. For card games in general, the cards being played break rules. You have the standard rules of play, and the text on the cards change what takes place outside of those boundaries. The Charm SHOULD stop the followup without the Ally card suddenly backing up and becoming illegally played... but then again, it's OverPower, and for any genius in the game, wisdom, logic, and intuitive discernment don't usually have a place in the actual rules.:)
Long Live OverPower!!!
Quote from: thetrooper27 on July 04, 2013, 02:47:12 PM
It seems to me that once an attack has been played and the opponent has opted however to deal with it (avoid, defend, or take the hit), you shouldn't be able to back up from there. It was mentioned that a negate could be played during a string at any time to negate the follow up actions. Using the Banshee example, if the 4F lands, then the 5I is played, can I go back and negate the 4F during the string and have any effect on the 11E being played after the 5I? I wasn't sure if I understood that post correctly...
I was thinking about the wording of the DB's...
"Use this special to avoid any teamwork attack against Elektra's team, cancelling any followups, or opponent must discard one teamwork card of Elektra's choice."
And thinking about the Gambit example, the circumstances of the Charm should break the standard rule about Ally followups. For card games in general, the cards being played break rules. You have the standard rules of play, and the text on the cards change what takes place outside of those boundaries. The Charm SHOULD stop the followup without the Ally card suddenly backing up and becoming illegally played... but then again, it's OverPower, and for any genius in the game, wisdom, logic, and intuitive discernment don't usually have a place in the actual rules.:)
Long Live OverPower!!!
I concur, I just like being a stinka ;D as I said, I just think the DB is useful enough.
As for the question... no, you cannot negate the initial attack after the follow-up is played. I think they just mean that you could negate at any point along the way. So, you could let the 4F land, then seeing the 5I, you could choose to negate at that point, to prevent a third attack.
I wouldn't have any idea what happens after charm...
I must say I have never seen a DB used to defend a teammate except the Any Hero/Character. meta rule 67 states an avoid special is character specific.
negates and follow up are so messy.