Hello all,
Since our rules committee has been dormant, and many unknown official rules continue to crop up to irk me, I have made another effort to tweak my own rule set for ease of play.
What I've done is remove the additional house-rules (well, most of them) and strip the reforms down to their most basic level as it pertains to the official game.
The goal is to streamline the system as much as possible into a rule system that discards the meta-rules entirely and plays on a more simple and intuitive level. Ideally, what remains could be incorporated into an edit of the main instruction guide.
That way, any dispute about how a card is played can be resolved by A) Reading the rulebook or B) The actual text on the cards. Those should ideally be the only two sources of clarification if a question arises.
So, here is what I've got. I believe it's pretty tight, but if you guys who are interested would be willing to go over and let me know any issues that come to your mind that are either confusing or create an imbalanced/broken scenario.
Remember - the goal here is the absolute removal of the Meta Rule system - so let me know if this system doesn't answer any questions. The nature of some cards will inevitably change here, that's expected. A lot of what's listed below is also official, some reflects changes.
RULE REFORMS
Rules for playing Overpower cards based on Card Type:
1. Activator cards – Standard with the following adjustments:
- The specials underneath the site are NOT considered to bear the icons of the activator. The activator and special are separate cards, but you still need to be able to play the activator to grab the special.
- Variants of characters in a site may be used on a team without cost to the site. (IE: Superpatriot may appear on a player's team if Captain America is in the site without sacrificing the Captain America cards from the site. This potentially gives legal duplicates of certain cards.)
- One Per Deck cards for Variants – A ONE PER DECK stipulation also applies to the battlesite. If an OPD appears in your site, it may not appear in your deck, and vice-versa.
- May be retrieved from dead pile by means of another card.
2. Aspect Cards – Standard rules.
- Aspects are considered to be played from the Homebase, not 'through a character' and as such are not affected by circumstances that affect the 'team' or 'characters.' Effects on the 'player' may affect an aspect however.
- Aspects may be placed to the homebase. The 'Any-Homebase' aspect may not be placed unless specified otherwise.
3. Event cards – standard rules, no change.
4. Power cards – standard with following adjustment:
- 'Power card attacks' vs. 'attacks made with power cards' = synonymous definition.
5. Special cards: All cards played as written with the exception of errata list (see below). Specials are no longer subject to contradictory meta-rules. The following notes should be kept in mind:
- 'Acts as' - When a card stipulates that it 'acts as' another type of card, it takes on the properties of the specified card as well as remaining a special.
- Combined attacks (IE: from AE coded specials) must be made with power cards of the specified type.
- Conditional effects – If a card contains a conditional effect (If successful/if not successful) the effect does NOT come into play unless used against a character on the opponent's team. Conditional effects are not applicable to the opponent's battlesite.
- Non-conditional Secondary effects – Secondary effects that are not subject to a condition of success or lack of success come into play immediately, regardless of the target (be it character or battlesite) or success of the attack. (IE: Acts as a level 11, <character> may not attack for remainder of battle.) Negates cancel all effects of the card.
- String attacks. Cards that allow additional attacks may be played in succession for a chain. The follow up/string conditions (if any) of the most recently played card will always replace those of any previously played card, in which case unused follow ups from previously played cards are lost. Aside from this chains may continue as long as the player has the cards to string.
Any Hero specials: Standard with the following notes:
- May be used as follow ups (where applicable) and with Universe: ally cards.
- May not be retrieved from dead pile by means of another card. (Standard rule)
- New Universe/Fortress of Solitude is played as written without restriction.
6. Tactic cards – Must be played at top of turn, unless used defensively where applicable.
- Artifacts:
Some artifacts may be played defensively. See notes about using cards to defend.
All artifacts subject to 'duration rule.' (see below)
- Doubleshots: Standard rules.
7. Universe cards: Must be played at top of turn unless altered by circumstance or used defensively.
- Ally – standard. All Universe: ally cards should read 'teammate MUST play...'
- Basic – standard.
- Teamwork – standard.
- Training – standard.
General playing rules that aren't specific to any card 'type':
1. Card 'Selection' etiquette: If a card allows a player to 'select' a specific card or card type from the draw pile, power pack, or dead pile and add it to his hand, then he must reveal the card to his opponent. If no card type is specified, then the player need not reveal the card to his opponent.
2. Ending a battle: A battle is only over when one of two things occurs – A player concedes, or both players pass. Until then a battle continues as normal, even if one player has lost his entire team. Once a battle has ended due to both players passing, then total up venture as normal.
3. Defensive plays:
A defense is defined as any card played in response to an opponent's action that protects a specific character; buffs/boosts a character or players team; or limits/de-buffs an opponent's (as opposed to a 'target') characters. In ALL cases the defense must be something that affects the card that is being played by the opponent in some way.
Any card meeting these requirements may be played defensively. Cards that have no direct effect on an attacking/played card may NOT be played in response as a defense. Likewise you cannot play a buff card to boost a card that is already capable of defending an attack, the bonus MUST be necessary for the defense.
For purposes of definition – 'block' is synonymous with 'defend.'
Also, utilizing a card already in play doesn't constitute a 'defense' as it is not being played 'in response' to the action.
If the defense of an attack is restricted by circumstance, then the printed restriction only applies to the card that stops the actual attack. (IE: Cannot be defended with a special. A special may be played to shift, or boost the defense – but the actual card stopping the attack must NOT be a special card.)
Any card that stipulates 'Play in current battle' or 'Play on your turn' may NOT be played defensively.
In short, a card (or combination of cards) may be played defensively if it:
1) Avoids/blocks, or shifts the attack.
2) Restricts the types of cards with which, or the manner in which the defender may be attacked (and also defends the attack). Example: Only attacks made with Universe cards may be used to attack <character> for remainder of battle.
3) Affects a specific card type played by the opponent. If no card type (power, universe, special, etc) is referenced, then it may not be used to defend. Example: Negate the effect of one special card played by opponent, or, Opponent's team may not use intellect power cards level 6-8 to attack for remainder of battle.
4) Is a buff for the team or a de-buff for the opponent. Examples: <character> is +2 to defense for remainder of battle, or, Character's <power type> rating is increased to 7 for remainder of game, or, Opponent is -1 on all actions for remainder of battle.
4. Duration rule:
Cards with a lasting effect remain in play until the end of their duration. A 'duration' is defined by any card that stipulates:
A) 'Remainder of Battle'
B) 'Remainder of Game'
C) 'Until...' a specific event or action occurs.
If no duration is printed as in the above examples, then it is considered to be (B) if OPD and (A) if a non-OPD.
If a card's effect isn't immediate/instant, then the duration rule applies to determine how long the card may remain in play until the effect is realized.
5. Inherent Abilities: Apply at all times, even while in reserve, without exception.
6. Shifting attacks:
- Attacks may not be shifted to any target the opponent could not normally have targeted with the attack in the first place.
- Attacks may be 'double shifted.'
ERRATA:
ALL cards are played as written on the card. The only errata that apply are the following:
All 'avoid' defensive specials with a printed limitation (IE: avoid 1 fighting, teammate avoid 1 attack etc) are considered to be AD coded specials. All personal pure avoid specials (Avoid 1 attack) are considered to be AG coded specials.
All Any-Power Power cards are considered 'One-Per-Deck.' (Applies to the AP 7, which does not contain the OPD text.)
A3 (Danger Room Aspect) should read 'are not affected' instead of 'may not be defended.'
Any Hero: Power Leech should read: 'Play on target character as an attack...'
AP coded specials should all read 'may not be defended by a card with an <power type> icon.' (Specifically pertains to Rhino: Rhino Charge)
GD coded specials (Specifically Onslaught: Mutant Gestalt) should read "If successful, acts as a level 1 energy OR strength hit."
HM coded card (Longshot: Purity of thought) should read: 'for each card discarded this battle by Longshot's team, placed or in hand...'
HQ coded specials (eg: Mr. Fantastic: Inventive Genius) are all considered to be OPD.
LN coded special (Marauders: Vertigo) should read 'Play in current battle..."
Maverick's 'Freelance Spy' should include the phrase 'for the remainder of the battle.'
Beyonder's Inherent ability should read: 'Counts as 28 points for Tournament Deckbuilding. Power grid is equal to highest value of all active teammates. May play any teammate's special cards. May not play any OPD special cards.'
Four Freedoms Plaza inherent should read: Any attack on FF team may be shifted to any teammate, who must defend with a Power Card based defense. If a power type on a character's grid is 4 or less, power cards of that type are +1 when used for defense.
------------
Let me know your thoughts. I think these are almost there with only a few hiccups to iron out.
-BBH
i have a suggestion for the Card 'Selection' etiquette, part
instead of revealing the card to your opponent, just put it face down on the table until you use it, at which point you flip it over, and prove that it is indeed of the specific type
I did think of that, and it's a viable option. I am partial to the reveal aspect, but that might just be me.
In that vein - I was thinking further that any card drawn after the discard phase should be kept separate... but ultimately I think that might prove unwieldy.
Edit - It occurred to me that I missed one - I'll also edit the previous post, but specials that 'act as' would also take on the properties of the cards they act as. It's pretty much just power cards... but a special that specifically says 'acts as a power card' should by definition take on the properties of a power card as well as remaining a special. So it could be avoided with a master mold for instance, or negated.
-BBH
Quick House Rule Reforms (I'd like to add... 8) )
+ Basic Universe Cards used offensively count toward venture total if only 1 card is used for defense against the attack. (They would also count towards HTKO against battlesites)
+ Training Universe Cards can be used twice by the same character; once in each power type. The two uses can be offensive, defensive, or one of each if the character meets the stat restrictions in both power types. (similar to a am special)
Unless restricted by an inherent ability, and in addition to normal placement rules, one of each of these cards (Basic universe and training) may be placed to any homebase and used by any character on the team.
+Doubleshots may be used defensively by either character contributing to the action.
http://overpower.ca/wiki/OverPower_Rule_Reform
Quote from: BasiliskFang on November 30, 2012, 05:52:58 AM
http://overpower.ca/wiki/OverPower_Rule_Reform
http://overpower.ca/wiki/OverPower_Rule_Reform#DC_Character_inherent_abilities
i rather like that
Metropolis SCU: May have two special cards placed, may not be duplicate.
that especially
Killer Croc: May only be cumulative ko'd with 25 pts, or spectrum Ko'd with four types.
i assume we choose one of the two
but does those apply to opo as well?(altho i leaning towards no)
This was my first attempt at applying the house rules in a tournament format. I think it was fairly successful, the variety of decks was awesome.
I've since tweaked and revised... always looking for feedback.
The Croc inherent doesn't trump the Dead is Dead rule, but you get whichever applies first really. It's a handy ability.
-BBH
I really like most of these changes.
Play as written makes things a lot easier.
I was not a fan of the Duration Rule when it was created. To me, it nerfed a lot of older cards.
BBH, you must play Universe and Doubleshots as the first play of your turn if you're playing them offensively?
And by your rules can I play Snow Blind as a defensive action?
And I was a little confused by the negate/ no intellect attacks of 6-8 may be used to attack for remainder of battle. These are defensive with your rules, right?
And also, is your recyclable rule included with these rules?
Quote from: thetrooper27 on November 30, 2012, 07:18:21 PM
BBH, you must play Universe and Doubleshots as the first play of your turn if you're playing them offensively?
And by your rules can I play Snow Blind as a defensive action?
And I was a little confused by the negate/ no intellect attacks of 6-8 may be used to attack for remainder of battle. These are defensive with your rules, right?
And also, is your recyclable rule included with these rules?
Yes, all universe, tactic, Any hero, and Activator cards must be played as the first action of your turn... this is true of official rules as well as my house rules.
By this house rule set, yes Snow blind can be a defensive play.
The other house rules that I left out of this post included:
Recyclable cards: Basic Universe, Doubleshot, Training.
Pseudo-Aspects: If using a fixed roster homebase, you could take any two NON-OPD specials or any one OPD special from the two characters you didn't use. IE: Using FF plaza, with the fantastic four, you could also add a She-Hulk and Namor non-OPD, or a She Hulk or Namor OPD.
-BBH
Do they act as special cards or as aspects? Could they be negated? Aspects can't be negated, right?
I didn't know universe cards had to be played at the top of the turn... what about teamworks?
What about Flabby Fighter and cards like that? Are they considered defensive by your house rules?
I like these.
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 01, 2012, 02:06:02 PM
Do they act as special cards or as aspects? Could they be negated? Aspects can't be negated, right?
I didn't know universe cards had to be played at the top of the turn... what about teamworks?
What about Flabby Fighter and cards like that? Are they considered defensive by your house rules?
I like these.
The 'pseudo-aspects' are still special cards and can be negated. Think of them like any heroes. They are placeable to the homebase, but not the team, also, I forgot to mention they use the same 'code rule' as battlesites - so you can't use two pseudo-aspects of the same code. (AG, AD etec.)
Yeah, Flabby Fighter would be considered Defensive.
One thing about my ruleset that I realized (and have yet to address) is that according to the wording - Nick Fury's Secure Perimeter and X-Babies Lil Rogue would also be playable defensively.
Haven't decided if it's broken or not.
-BBH
Let them be played defensively, rare to see little rogue see play and never have I seems Nick Fury...
I'm not sure I like only being able to play teamworks and ally cards as my first action each turn... kinda takes their flair away. Do you guys think this is a fair rule, or might it be subject to revision?
Quote from: CoS on December 02, 2012, 02:49:42 AM
Let them be played defensively, rare to see little rogue see play and never have I seems Nick Fury...
I'm inclined to agree, if only for simplicity. It would also require the opponent to use his site offensively, which doesn't always happen. Many players keep those activators for defense.
Lil Rogue gets a lot of use, though, anyone using the Babies is wise to put that card in.
It's funny, I was using a Fury deck the other day, and played Secure Perimeter... only to learn that my opponent had no activators. Always annoying.
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 02, 2012, 08:11:27 PM
I'm not sure I like only being able to play teamworks and ally cards as my first action each turn... kinda takes their flair away. Do you guys think this is a fair rule, or might it be subject to revision?
It's 100% a fair rule, no need to change it. Strings are very deadly. And for a player to be able to chain teamworks from previously played specials would probably be a little too much.
There IS a small loophole to this, however. If you used an ally, followed with an AK special (Gambit: Charge object) you could legally play a TW as a follow up to an ally. The ally activates the special which requires a universe card contribution. Not broken or powerful, but legal nonetheless. ;)
-BBH
BBH my man... help me out. I was reading the official rules, and I don't see where it says you have to lead off your turn with a Universe card. ???
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 07, 2012, 04:44:53 AM
BBH my man... help me out. I was reading the official rules, and I don't see where it says you have to lead off your turn with a Universe card. ???
I believe what BBH means is that you can't use a universe card as a follow up attack. Therefore, you can't use AA (4 + Additional) then play an Ally card, then have a special played by your teammate.
I know you can't use a Teamwork as a followup attack, so by it being at the top of the turn, that is the only way it could be used in the first place.
Correct me please if I'm wrong.
OOOOOOh... first action of the TURN, not the BATTLE.
Complete buffoon... told ya. 8) Thanks for being patient with me fellas.
u can still use basic or traing
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 08, 2012, 03:18:23 PM
OOOOOOh... first action of the TURN, not the BATTLE.
Complete buffoon... told ya. 8) Thanks for being patient with me fellas.
seriously, that same terminaology threw me off for the exact. same. reason.! ;)
What about teamworks? Can I play them as long as they aren't follow ups? Or do they have to be the first action of BATTLE?
any time at start of turn
iirc, there's nothing that you are limited to playing on the first turn
Got it. Finally. Whew! Could you imagine playing OPOnline with me?!
One rule that really needs to be re-examined is the "Dead is Dead rule." This rule wreaks of an overarching knee jerk reaction when only very few problematic situations needed to be addressed. It's bad because it nerfs a myriad of otherwise fairly innocuous situations while going too far to fix what it was really targeted at. There are only 3 situations where something like this ruling is necessary:
1. X-Babies
2. Grunge
3. Combinations of EK and CG specials
but there are over a dozen others where a ruling like "DiD" has no place in the game. Here's an example
Deadpool (May not be Spectrum KO'd with MultiPower Power cards) has "High Threshold of Pain" pain play. He's got an 8F, 4M on him, and now he's hit with an 8E. Deadpool is gone. Not only is he gone, but the DiD rule just invalidated a special card, and an inherent ability. A meta ruling is simply not required here as having to land another 10 pts of damage, or another power type on him is simply not gamebreaking.
The same goes for Morbius (May only be Cumulative KO'd by 30 or more points).
The DiD rule needs to be amended to say that a character is KO'd when they're at 20/4, or 30/3.
I can see your point. Would this make the Xbabies, Grunge type characters better, and does this mean that Ghost Rider would be ko'd at 30 points/ 3 icons?
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 24, 2012, 12:14:09 AM
I can see your point. Would this make the Xbabies, Grunge type characters better, and does this mean that Ghost Rider would be ko'd at 30 points/ 3 icons?
well, wouldn't Ghost Rider still be KO'd at 20, regardless of how many icons?
Without a card from a battlesite, or some weird confluence of events the DiD rule has no affect on Ghost Rider.
Buffoon moment... my head is hung in shame. :-[
In general, I always felt that the DiD rule should have been dropped after Image or XM Edition. They introduced a LOT of ways to ensure a KO at that point.
I always had trouble hitting the level 2 power card attack after the 6Anypower. Never tried the NW specials...
Real quick, the NW special HAS TO BE the hit that counts up to fifteen points. It can't be the first hit on their record, then land a 10 and ko the character, right? Just makin' sure...
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 24, 2012, 12:53:37 AM
I always had trouble hitting the level 2 power card attack after the 6Anypower. Never tried the NW specials...
Real quick, the NW special HAS TO BE the hit that counts up to fifteen points. It can't be the first hit on their record, then land a 10 and ko the character, right? Just makin' sure...
It's my understanding that the 5 can come anytime and combine with 15
other points to KO. There's nothing really in the Meta Rules to specify, and the card is pretty open. Hardly anyone uses Sabra or Rapture. Sabra had a good Marvel's card and is a decently cheap dual-grid, but I don't think I've
ever seen Rapture in a deck. IMO, let it be the best of the interpretations ;D
I don't think there's anything wrong with interpreting it this way especially if you take into consideration that there are 10 point attacks in the game. It's basically a level 10 attack that counts half toward venture total, and is much easier to block.
QuoteIn general, I always felt that the DiD rule should have been dropped after Image or XM Edition. They introduced a LOT of ways to ensure a KO at that point.
This I disagree with. Yes there are more ways to combat it, but it's very easy to make a deck that doesn't make use of those new methods. As bad as the X-Babies' inherent is Grunge is far worse.
That's cool with me... and I'm not trying to chase a rabbit here... but the wording on the card heavily implies that it must be the killing attack.
"IF successful, AND character has hits totaling 15 or more..."
Kinda the same problem I was having with Substitute Death... the way the card reads implies there's a specific time to check for the effect. The card lands as a hit, then you look to the secondary effect. It's a much better card if it works the other way, and I'm all about that... but it would be a card I would re-word if so. We could give an NW to a villain in the Ultimate Evil set, and reword it, then we could errata Rapture and Sabra's cards.:)
Maybe there is a check each turn that looks to see if conditions are met. Any meta rules pertaining to this? Are there any other situations like this that might need to be considered for BBH's revisions?
I still don't understand why you're having difficulty with Morph's Substitute Death special. It's incredibly straight forward. It says "Play in current battle, after one teammate is KO'd." You play it in the current battle, but you can only do so when a teammate is KO'd. Then it goes on to tell you what happens next. There's absolutely nothing to be confused about here.
Also there's nothing about the NW special that implies that it has to be the killing attack. The "if successful" sets the initial condition. Once it's successful the second part applies. The word "and" does not imply order. If you've got a peanut butter and jelly sandwich does it suddenly become a jelly and peanut butter sandwich when you flip it upside down? If I say I went to the bank and the gas station today does it imply I did them in that order? If a person says "I'm wearing socks and shoes" vs. another that says, "I'm wearing shoes and socks" would you think either person is wearing their socks on top of their shoes?
I think the problem people have is that English is highly interpretive. this is why we have so many synonyms, axioms, and slang.
with Substitute Death, the problem is the phrase "current battle" being in the same sentence as "after a teammate is KO'd" - it sets a very easy association that the "KO" and the "play" both happen during the mentioned "current battle"
the NW card has a similar ambiguity because of the word "if" being where it is, relative to the word "and" - this is the difference between language and math. the way the card is written could be interpreted that the "if" applies to both the "successful" and the "character has hits..." conditions. it would be like this in an equation:
if(successful+character has hits...)
-vs-
(if successful)+(character has hits...)
in general, here's what people need to remember in playing OP- most cards have ambiguity in them because the writers were not skilled at legalese. so, whenever possible, assume that the most opportunistic interpretation is the correct one, UNLESS there is a rule, meta rule, or errata for it ;)
If only my girlfriend understood me the way ncannelora does.:)
I'll use your example of gas station and bank, Hotobu.
Get gas money at the bank. If successful, go to the gas station and get gas.
Acts as a level 5 Strength attack. If successful, and character has hits totaling 15 or more, then target is ko'd, regardless of inherent abilities and other special cards.
If I flip them, I can't get gas because I haven't went to the bank for my gas money.
Do you see why it might be just a little bit confusing? :-\ I don't think the pb and j example nor the socks and shoes example are even close to the same thing. Peanut butter, jelly, socks, and shoes... those are images that don't have nearly the technical implication that a slew of cards do. The secondary effect triggers upon resolution of the attack. If it's in the permanent record, it has to recheck every turn of battle to see if there are hits in the permanent record totaling 15 or more. No other OP card that I can think of does this. Even changing icons on a multipower card happens upon resolution of the hit. Secondary effects ALWAYS happen upon the attack being successful, and at no other time... at least not that I can think of, but I'm frequently wrong, I don't mind admitting that, and I very well could be here. You seem much more versed on the game of OP than I am, and I can't think of any other time that there would be an occurence like this, or even with the Substitute Death. "Play during current battle, after one teammate is ko'd" sounds to me like you can't play it during current battle UNLESS a teammate has been ko'd. Furthermore, it also reads to me that you must exchange Morph for the teammate that was ko'd this battle, not a teammate from another battle. The card seems very specific to me in what it is intended to do. Coupled with the names of BOTH cards, (Mercy Killing, Substitute Death) I believe that anyone could understand why I read them the way that I do, even if I'm reading them incorrectly. Rapture isn't delivering the "kill" if she makes the first attack and they continue to play specials and fight, and Morph isn't being the "substitute" for someone dying if they're already dead.
Come on, big brother... I'm definitely not as knowledgeable about OverPower as you are. I can tell you've played this game alot, and you have alot to contribute to the discussion of creating new cards that are balanced and fair for the game, and also for some great deck ideas. All that being said, I think someone of your intelligence can see where I'm coming from, and why I might be just a little confused about the wording on the cards vs. what they actually do.
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 24, 2012, 03:09:10 PM
If only my girlfriend understood me the way ncannelora does.:)
I'll use your example of gas station and bank, Hotobu.
Get gas money at the bank. If successful, go to the gas station and get gas.
This is not a proper interpretation at all of the metaphor because you're separating the clauses that are tied together with "and." A proper interpretation would be, "If I leave the house I'm going to the bank and the gas station." Once again there's no order implied when you tie two clauses together with the word and like that.
Quote
Do you see why it might be just a little bit confusing? :-\ I don't think the pb and j example nor the socks and shoes example are even close to the same thing. Peanut butter, jelly, socks, and shoes... those are images that don't have nearly the technical implication that a slew of cards do. The secondary effect triggers upon resolution of the attack. If it's in the permanent record, it has to recheck every turn of battle to see if there are hits in the permanent record totaling 15 or more. No other OP card that I can think of does this. Even changing icons on a multipower card happens upon resolution of the hit. Secondary effects ALWAYS happen upon the attack being successful, and at no other time... at least not that I can think of, but I'm frequently wrong, I don't mind admitting that, and I very well could be here.
I don't want to continue to speak to metaphors because those discussions tend to get away from the initial point, but the point is that the word "and"does not imply order. Two phrases/ideas separated by the word and does not imply which event happens first. As for no other special having that effect that doesn't necessarily matter because new specials are intended to do new things. There is one that comes close though: Acts as a level 6 Any-Power attack. If successful, Target Character is KO'd by next level 2 Energy Power Card Hit, regardless of Inherent Abilities and other Special cards. This card constantly checks for new hits.
QuoteYou seem much more versed on the game of OP than I am, and I can't think of any other time that there would be an occurence like this, or even with the Substitute Death. "Play during current battle, after one teammate is ko'd" sounds to me like you can't play it during current battle UNLESS a teammate has been ko'd. QuoteWell of course you can't play it unless a teammate has been KO'd. If everyone's alive who is there to bring back?
QuoteFurthermore, it also reads to me that you must exchange Morph for the teammate that was ko'd this battle, not a teammate from another battle.
I don't understand how you can make that interpretation. It says "Play in current battle, after one teammate is KO'd" not immediately after, or "Play in the battle that a teammate is KO'd." There's a comma there for a reason. The comma separates the two thoughts you're reading it as if there's no comma there. It can be re-written as "Play in current battle. Play after one teammate is KO'd."
QuoteCome on, big brother... I'm definitely not as knowledgeable about OverPower as you are. I can tell you've played this game alot, and you have alot to contribute to the discussion of creating new cards that are balanced and fair for the game, and also for some great deck ideas. All that being said, I think someone of your intelligence can see where I'm coming from, and why I might be just a little confused about the wording on the cards vs. what they actually do.
If I understood I'd tell you. I honestly don't. The way they're written is only ambiguous if you try to force an interpretation. Written as they are they're straightforward.
I disagree. And that's ok. There are lots of other things I agree with you on.
(First post from BBH's "imaginary" friend)
Yes, Snow Blind and all its ilk are defensive. If they change how your opponent (player) can attack, what they attack with, or the value of the attack. It doesn't work if you have to target a specific attacking character.
Beyonder: BBH, did we end up with "Cannot play OPD special cards", or "cannot play OPD cards"? The latter excludes MP5 and AP6/7/8, certain artifacts, etc.
Also discussed but not sure if its inherent or rules, but Beyonder should also read:
"OPD. May be used as an activator without a special to Battlesite" Basically, if he's your 13th activator, you don't need a 13th card in your battlesite. Also "grid is... (or grid of last active teammate if he is alone)"
I assume the recycling of BU, Training and DS goes under house rules rather than the overhaul? What about DS being used to defend self or teammate?
Edits since the forum doesn't allow multiple replies?
Edit @thetrooper: NW specials only check "if successful". It's a one time check triggered by the hit landing. They would have to have 10+ hits already for the 5 to do anything special. Otherwise it would read "If successful, target is KO'd when they have hits totaling 15 or more". Then its an ongoing effect that constantly looks at the character's damage. It'd be far more useful that way, but it is written as it is written.
Re: Showing Cards: Keeping two separate hands is a nightmare for both players. More often than not, the player will forget its there. Or opponent will forget to count it. Or it'll accidentally get mixed up with the "regular" hand. Or intentionally. What if you have both Ghost Rider, Thor and Morlocks on the team? Do you have your regular hand, plus three separate hands?
Pretty much every single CCG I've ever played works this way. If you retrieve a card with a restriction, you must show it to your opponent. Most CCGs have it built into the rules. Most will print it on the card itself. It's a de facto standard.
A couple others: Again, not sure if these got pruned out or not.
- Infinite Loop: If a player's card causes an infinite loop, that player must chose a positive integer. The action is repeated that many times, and then the loop is broken. Two examples would be some sort of double-shift loop, or LX special + To Save The World
- Attack: A card is an attack if it is an Attack; targets an Opponent; targets or effects your Opponent's cards, hand, deck, Piles, battlesite, mission or venture total; allows you to concede
- Buff Gambit: What was decided on this? "If a card played as a Top action is a non-attack that alters how your character or team attacks, you may immediately play an additional attack (even a Top attack), using that benefit. If the attack is defended, the Buff is defended, too. If the attack is successful, the Buff remains in play for its natural duration". So you can buff gambit Blind Man's Bluff, Team Co-ordination, etc.
- Activator Icons: More a clarification as to why they don't fuse. Activators effectively read "Play as a Top action. Retrieve 1 special playable by the Activator (including inherent abilities), then discard Activator to Dead Pile. Playing character must immediately makes an additional Top action using that card." Or defensively, "Play as a defense. Retrieve 1 special playable by Activator (including inherent abilities), then discard Activator to Dead Pile. Playing character must play retrieved special to defend (or as part of a defense)."
So attack: no fuse, no restriction on attacking with X icon. Defense: Still no restriction, since the activator isn't actually defending (see rule above about "only the card that defends counts").
- Duplicate: (again, mostly clarification, since the Meta rule is gone): A card is not a duplicate of a card placed to reserve, unless that card can be played. A card is not unusable if you have a card, placed or in hand, that will explicitly allow you to use it. (Everything's A Weapon allows you to keep KO'd teammate specials. A "Draw 3" doesn't allow you to keep a teamwork with no power cards).
- Conditional Effects: Explicitly only against characters. Not against battlesite, homebase, or any Card in play (EB special)
- Order of Precedence: Given conflicting wording, Events always take first priority, followed by the most recent card played to the least recent card played. "May Not" and "Cannot" takes priority over "may". (Target may not play specials takes priority over may play any special).
- Parting Shot: (We never really tested abusing this by just playing as written). When opponent concedes, there is a single "parting shot" turn. If a card may be played after opponent concedes, or a card allows you to attack after opponent concedes, you may make a single attack during this turn. No follow ups are allowed on this action, and only a single attack may be made. Thus, if you have multiple cards/characters who can attack, only one can be used. You cannot play a card that MUST have a follow up. Follow-ups or additional card plays from secondary conditional effects are allowed (?)
There might be a few others, mostly based on meta-rules, can't remember exactly how many we ditched outright.
so with parting shot -
can you do Wolvie - rage then tracking senses? but no aspect?
Quote from: BasiliskFang on January 08, 2013, 09:47:53 PM
so with parting shot -
can you do Wolvie - rage then tracking senses? but no aspect?
This is always a weird one, since Tracking Senses doesn't technically provide an additional attack. It has a conditional secondary effect of fetching + attacking. I would say yes you can do this for that reason-- same reason Captain America's "if unsuccessful, flip and attack" should work.
i can see the reasoning there.
I'm pretty sure if you get them hashed out and properly worded, the BBH rules revisions should replace the regular overpower rulings. Thanks for explaining your testplay findings Halcyon1234, and welcome the message board!
Okay, so I can play special cards that give additional effects ofensively in SOME cases, such as Blind Man's Bluff, or a card that provides a +2 bonus with a power card attack, etc. What is the official OP rule concerning this, and how do I determine which cards can be used this way?
Quote from: thetrooper27 on January 25, 2013, 12:43:20 AM
Okay, so I can play special cards that give additional effects ofensively in SOME cases, such as Blind Man's Bluff, or a card that provides a +2 bonus with a power card attack, etc. What is the official OP rule concerning this, and how do I determine which cards can be used this way?
Meta 35:
"Specials which grant bonuses/abilities to the playing Character (or the playing Character's team) that can be played offensively can be played along with an attack. The attack may not be made with a Universe card of any kind (although the Special and attack may be made as a follow-up to an Ally attack). In the event that the attack is defended, the bonus/ability would be defended as well and would not take place. The attack may be defended by defendeding the numeric attack or the Special granting the bonus/ability."
So pretty much the same thing, except it's in the rules rather than the Meta rules.
Cool. So as long as it affects the attack I'm making, it works. An AI wouldn't work because it doesn't alter the attack I'm making, and Snow Blind doesn't work because it affects my opponents team and not mine. Correct?
Quote from: thetrooper27 on January 25, 2013, 01:19:39 PM
Cool. So as long as it affects the attack I'm making, it works. An AI wouldn't work because it doesn't alter the attack I'm making, and Snow Blind doesn't work because it affects my opponents team and not mine. Correct?
yeah, that's basically it. if it's going to alter the attack you're about to make (the card itself, or your team/character). again, you have to be a little careful with these, because sometimes it can actually make the attack
easier to defend, because it's involving another card (the Special). for example, using a BG+Power card could then be defended with an AH, LO, or Negate, and the BG is then defended as well. or, also, it could be defended with an EE, and the Special still has to go away (or an AD like Batman's).
on the flipside, if you're paying attention, these buff cards can QUITE often make your attack more difficult to defend. if you know your opponent has an avoid 9 or less, using a BG+8 would pierce that :)
Good word for sure. I'm getting there.
Quote from: ncannelora on December 24, 2012, 01:10:51 AM
It's my understanding that the 5 can come anytime and combine with 15 other points to KO. There's nothing really in the Meta Rules to specify, and the card is pretty open. Hardly anyone uses Sabra or Rapture. Sabra had a good Marvel's card and is a decently cheap dual-grid, but I don't think I've ever seen Rapture in a deck. IMO, let it be the best of the interpretations ;D
Sometimes I wish that the creators of OverPower were a little more methodical when creating the system for use of Specials (and Artifact/Aspect cards), so there would be much less room for misinterpretation. If it read more like a mathematical equation, many issues we face now would not be existent. I think all Specials should read like this:
---
Play as: (can be as many as needed, depending on how the Special would be played)
• Level x <power type> attack against <character> (front line, reserve, etc.)
• Non-numerical attack against <character>
• Non-numerical attack against Opponent
• Defensive action
Conditions for use: (again, as many as required)
• Player must have 1 character that is currently in K.O. pile
• Target character must have at least 1 placed card
• Attack made against <initiating character> must contain a strength icon
Effect: (can be as many as needed)
• If hit, acts as a level x <power type> hit on Current Battle/Permanent Record
• If hit, <character> cannot make attack during Offensive Action phase. Effect duration - End of battle / Until Attacked
• Player may have another Offensive Action phase to make an attack with <card type> immediately following Opponent's Defensive Action phase.
• <Initiating character> cannot be cumulative/spectrum K.O.'d. Effect duration - End of game.
---
So, for the case of that Sabra card, the text could be as follows (just taking one possible interpretation):
---
Play as:
Level 5 Energy attack on Front Line character
Conditions for use:
(None)
Effects:
1) If hit - acts as a level 5 Energy hit on Current Battle of target character. Effect duration - Hit.
2) If hit - when target character accumulates more than 15 points of damage, target character is K.O.'d, regardless of Inherent Abilities and other Special cards. Effect duration - End of game.
---
This leaves very little room for interpretation, and makes things much clearer. Would have been good if they did this for all Specials. Sure, it would have been a heck of a lot more text, but at least we wouldn't be facing the same issues we face in OverPower now.
hey PowerBalance, did you ever see the Jack Nicholson movie, "As Good As It Gets"? he's asked how he writes women so well. he answers that he thinks of a man and takes away reason an accountability (ha!).
anyway, sometimes I think of that scene when I think of how Overpower was developed... not sure why, exactly :P
Quote from: ncannelora on February 25, 2013, 12:28:01 AM
hey PowerBalance, did you ever see the Jack Nicholson movie, "As Good As It Gets"? he's asked how he writes women so well. he answers that he thinks of a man and takes away reason an accountability (ha!).
anyway, sometimes I think of that scene when I think of how Overpower was developed... not sure why, exactly :P
No joke... one of my favorite movies of all time.
Ha ha ha ha - what are you trying to say ncannelora? That OverPower is stripped of it's reason and accountability? LOL!
(Having said that, I'd have to agree! Ha ha ha ha!)