Power Players and Universe Cards

[gameplan.exe]

You could make them playable on their own, where the combine is just an option. This way it helps alleviate the card advantage problem.

So for example Jubilee has an Energy Enhancer BU placed. Opponent targets her with a level 2 Power card. She plays the BU by itself defensively 0+3 = 3 so it blocks the level 2 Power card attack.

Or she could choose to take the Hit then throws her level 6E power card plus the BU for a 9E attack on the next turn.

It's not a perfect fix but it would give them a little more flexability, which certainly wouldn't hurt.

And if you decide to let them count for damage as well, now you'd actual have a quite usable card if you combined with the standalone play rule.

honestly, i like this idea so much i'm surprised i never thought of it!

[steve2275]

hawkman+forge+absorbing man+mr.fantastic=


imagine a m in front getting a +4 strength attack(11)
or hawkman with a 12 strength attack
or mr.fantastic with a12 intellect attack
i might make it with regular rules

[Nostalgic]

I was going to start a new thread, but it will probably be combined with this one anyway. 

Came up with a simple way to add BUs and TUs to the mix that addresses card advantage and makes them a bit more tactical.

When using these rules the minimum decks size becomes 60.

A minimum of 3 BU cards and 1 training card must be put under the team's homebase location card. These cards are shuffled and treated as a separate environment deck (universe pack?). (Name distinction made to separate it from the main draw pile and battlesite deck.) There is no limit to the number of Basic/Training universe cards you can put in the environment deck as long as there are no duplicates.

These cards can be accessed in 3 ways.
The first way is if you have to discard at least 1 card from your hand due to duplicate or unusable cards.  After you've discarded you can draw 1 card from the environment deck.

The second way you can access this deck is if the opponent ventures more than 2 missions. Any combination of the additional cards drawn can come from the draw pile or the environment deck.

The final way to access this deck is through any special card that lets you draw cards from the draw pile. These include AT, HQ, LO, and CS specials.  If the special allows you to draw multiple cards then any combination may come from the draw pile or environment deck.  So if you play a HQ special you could draw 2 cards from the draw pile and 1 from the environment deck or vice versa. 

I could see these cards being discarded to any one of the 3 discard piles depending on your point of view.

[Tussin]

i have been throwing ideas back and forth with Alex about how to give love to basic/training universe cards.

reading some of these ideas... if we combined a ruling set for the special effects of universe cards it could make them very viable.

i was also thinking about an updated idea to the universe cards... to gain meaningful effect from both anyone like Domino or Strong Guys special BS



ok i think this would be more fair... if you block an attack from opponent using a universe card with the exact same value... the universe card hits opponent for the +1 +2 +3 +4 for damage against, but the power card goes back to the dead pile.

so this way if you play those people in your deck with that special, say opponent does a 5+3 power+universe attack, you block with 5+3, the (BS) special makes the 5 stick to opponent, and the universe special effect makes the +3 stick for damage as well.

keeps it distinct enough so it doesn't run over eachothers toes.

but then i think most people would only pack +3 and +4's in the deck, and +1 and +2 wouldn't be utilized.

hmm even one last idea.. what if you block higher than opponent and you use the exact same universe card bonus... then it can be used as a special effect to do the damage to opponent back? seems like a decent risk/reward and giving that extra fluff for universe cards? so say opponent does a 5+3 attack, you block with 6+3, the 3 damage of your universe card hits opponent back. seems like the most balanced way?

trying to think as well for Gambit/Vision/Mr.Fantastic special to make it more sought out for support.


i was also thinking if your universe card bonus is higher than the attackers that you block with an equal or greater value, your universe hits opponent for damage. so +1 bonus could become a +2 with special, +2 bonus a +4, a +3 bonus  a +6, a +4 bonus a +8.

the more use of universe cards... it would also make some cards worthwhile on heros to use again like avoid one attack made with a universe card. etc



just lots of ideas... concoct and narrow it down to be the most fair, adds more utility for universe cards and all related cards. risk vs reward, if you make sloppy attacks and opponent is ready to drop kick you with your back turned, you should get a slight penalty

and the great thing about this... it doesn't overlap any cards... creating a niche. its own place.
so they can all seamlessly weave to create unique effects that all can mingle, nothing overrides.

I've been giving your ideas quite a bit of thought, and it does seen like a very good idea. I'm now even thinking of making MultiPower versions of Universe cards to make the all-round characters more useful too.

So, to recap, if a basic universe card is used defensively, the basic universe card will hit the opponent if the value of the defense (including the bonus) exactly equals the value of the attack. This hit counts to damage, but not to venture total.

Should be some benefit for using it offensively as well? Or would basic universe cards be one of the few cards that really benefits from only being used defensively, since everything else (like Teamwork, Ally, DoubleShots) is only good offensively?

PSYLOCKE: BETSY BRADDOCK E: 6   F: 3   S: 2   I: 5   (16)
~ Psylocke's Basic Universe cards count toward Damage and Venture Total. ~

i think the direction we have went will work you still can get their effects fine without overlapping

keep universe cards without the ability to add venture, unless stated specifically by a card.

two with someone like Psylocke, she can do damage and venture with basic universe cards without having to rely on the block mechanic. so she still gains a positive benefit with her passive, so this rule is not stripping her of anything, and keeping it all niche.



even for the homebase locations cards from Mojo World and The Outback.

TV DIMENSION (B2) <XM> {U} [OPD]
For remainder of game, Mojoworld's team may draw 1 card from top of Draw Pile immediately after playing any Basic Universe card. Discard if duplicate.

PIRATE TECHNOLOGY (A5) <XM> {U} [OPD]
The Outback's team's Basic Universe cards used to attack count toward Damage and Venture Total for remainder of game

and i think thats why we probably shouldn't allow basic universe cards to last for the entire battle, with mojo world you could create unfair drawing power and overload opponent.



* Will there be inconsistency due to the fact that Teamwork cards are also called "Universe cards" and therefore, for consistency purposes, shouldn't they also count towards damage? *

well i think teamwork cards are powerful enough, they cant be used to defend with, so i think they should be exempt from the normal universe cards special property of blocking with for damage reflection.

i feel basic/training universe cards should apply to defense from all universe cards including teamwork for the special effect.

i am just fine with this property bonus effecting normal universe cards and training universe cards only.

well i think it would still be balanced... most teams should have 1 or 2 8 stats, and between the cards you get... people still would have to pick/choose... even if opponent does hit 8+3 it might be unblockable for my 6, but the tradeoff is now i can swing with a high or low attack after that... if he does a weak attack after he expends his big attacks, say his next attack is a 5+2, i block with 6+2 and he also catches. and my 6's or teammates might be able to avoid that attack as well, setting him off at a card disadvantage and wasting his biggest attack first. i still think it would be reasonable. you could play weak attacks, forcing him to block, take them, or think you have a weak hand, when he does a medium attack, save your big cards to deal damage to him for example. he thinks you have a bad hand... he plays a 5+2, but you bring out a 5+4. under this rule idea, he would take the +4 training universe damage for failing and underestimating you.

gives people another degree of strategy, you just cant attack everything without impunity. you have to be careful still

i still think this may be the easiest and fairest way to bring those cards playable into the game. simplify is the name of the game.

i think recycling them into the power pack is fair, they are nothing game breaking or changing like special cards, teamworks, etc all those other special cards.

maybe recreate the training cards and add new tiers for those i mentioned before, and/or add a minor damage component if they hit? so say +3 fighting or energy does a 1 fighting or energy damage. +4 energy or fighting adds 2 fighting or energy damage. +5 fighting or energy does a 3 fighting or energy damage, +6 fighting or energy does a 4 fighting or energy damage. for example

how about this upgrade to training cards?

5 Strength or less to use . . . +3 and +4 bonus... normally

add this feature for a new card strictly for 6's? double requirement again

5 Strength/Fighting or less to use... +6 to Strength/Fighting stat bonus
Highest Stat = 6

5 Strength/Fighting or less to use +5 to Strength/Fighting stat bonus
Highest Stat = 7

could scrap the 7 maybe, and just give +5 and +6 to 6's only?

so for example

8's could use a +4 bonus to a 5 power card or less = 9
7's could use a +5 bonus to a 5 power card or less = 10
6's could use a +6 bonus to a 5 power card or less = 11

basic universe spectrum

6's use a +3 bonus to a 6 power card = 9
7's use a +3 bonus to a 7 power card = 10
8's use a +3 bonus to a 8 power card = 11

and maybe to equalize universe cards maybe add a restriction to the basics... the 6 is only useable by 6's, 7's by 7's and 8 by 8's so 8's dont get a 6 card use advantage to a 6 for example.

[TheGeneral]

Just wondering if any of the tournament holders could consider any of these rule changes. I like the idea of making BU cards more useful also character specials involving universe cards being more useful.

[DiceK]

Just wondering if any of the tournament holders could consider any of these rule changes. I like the idea of making BU cards more useful also character specials involving universe cards being more useful.

Unfortunately not for the K2 Challenge in March.

[Nostalgic]

Simple is best.

Offensively, a basic universe card combined with a power card will count for numerical damage but not venture total if defended by a single card defense. The exception to this would be if a card specifically defeats a universe card attack. 

Example: Player 1 attacks with a  level 5 strength power card combined with the 6+3 to use dumpster BU for a level 8 strength attack.  Player 2 plays an 'avoid 1 attack' special.  The 5 is discarded and BU is left on the defending character as 3 points of damage but doesn't count toward spectrum KO.  (Reminds me of the fighting video games when you block an attack but still lose a fraction of life.  )

Defensively, a basic universe card combined with a power card will count toward venture total only if its numerical value is equal to the value of the attack.

These 2 rules save and enhance the usefulness of the AD, HC, BX, and AK specials shown above.  They also work with my 'environment deck' idea. 

Edit: BTW I think the AK special should double either the damage or venture bonus, depending on the situation,  for the remainder of the battle.

[teesaw]

I don't think anyone said this specifically, but I've always thought that the easiest way to make BU's useful would be to have them active for the duration of the battle. 

If a character plays a BU card, it's placed on the character with the attack that's made, and remains on that character until (1) a power card attack using that BU/TU is defeated, (2) the BU/TU is used defensively, or (3) end of battle.   I think this would solve the problem entirely.

I think that you'd need to go through the specials that effect BUs, and meta them - for example, Molecular Mimic and the Thing Card that were posted in the thread would "use" the BU, the card that doubles the universe bonus would not, but I think that would get the card to where it needs to be to remain viable.

I also proposed in a different thread that the game add 6/7/8 + 4 and a 8+5 OPD BU - I'm not necessarily suggesting these two fixes together, but this is my two cents on the issue.

[Nostalgic]

I don't think anyone said this specifically, but I've always thought that the easiest way to make BU's useful would be to have them active for the duration of the battle. 

If a character plays a BU card, it's placed on the character with the attack that's made, and remains on that character until (1) a power card attack using that BU/TU is defeated, (2) the BU/TU is used defensively, or (3) end of battle.   I think this would solve the problem entirely.

This basically makes BU/TUs like AM specials. I don't think  those specials get much use either since they don't affect venture and only help 1 character situationally. Also it doesn't address the primary problem which is the card advantage issue.  When you play a  universe card with a power card and its defended you're down a card. If you block a single card attack with power card combined with a universe card you're down a card.  I wanted to address that problem without using the 'draw to replace' mechanic.

I think that you'd need to go through the specials that effect BUs, and meta them - for example, Molecular Mimic and the Thing Card that were posted in the thread would "use" the BU, the card that doubles the universe bonus would not, but I think that would get the card to where it needs to be to remain viable.

I also proposed in a different thread that the game add 6/7/8 + 4 and a 8+5 OPD BU - I'm not necessarily suggesting these two fixes together, but this is my two cents on the issue.

Did a quick search for specials with the word 'universe' in them.

Now that I think about it the BX specials make me look at the offensive side of what I suggested in a different way. I don't like the idea of the BU/TU being 'better' than the AE specials or double shots. I say this because under the proposed rule you can play a BU/TU combined attack and still do damage if it's blocked. (Though may that's the level we have to go to for enough incentive to play these cards...  )

So here's the change...

Offensively, BU/TU cards are added to venture but not damage if defended by a single card defense.  If you attack with a BU/TU and its not defended at all both the power card and the BU/TU count venture total, but only the power card counts toward damage.  Under this senario the BX special would basically double universe card's venture bonus.

The Molecular Mimic card is unaffected by the rules I mentioned.  Defensively, BU/TU would work as I mentioned earlier.

I don't like the idea of adding extra BUs to the game.

[teesaw]

While I don't agree that they would basically be AM specials, I concede that this my suggestion might not be the easiest fix.

So here's the change...

Offensively, BU/TU cards are added to venture but not damage if defended by a single card defense. 

If they're defended, they count toward venture?  I'm not sure I follow.

If you attack with a BU/TU and its not defended at all both the power card and the BU/TU count venture total, but only the power card counts toward damage. 

I like this part by itself.  Basically saying "BU/TU hits from current battle are discarded after venture is calculated, or when one player concedes, and do not count toward cumulative or spectrum K.O."

[Nostalgic]

While I don't agree that they would basically be AM specials, I concede that this my suggestion might not be the easiest fix.

So here's the change...

Offensively, BU/TU cards are added to venture but not damage if defended by a single card defense. 

If they're defended, they count toward venture?  I'm not sure I follow.

Here's the example. A 4 energy power card combined with the 6+2 power lines BU for a level 6 energy attack. The opponent defends the attack with a single level 6 fighting power card. The damage is stopped and the power card is discarded to the power pack. However, the 6+2 BU is left in place and adds +2 to venture total for the remainder of the battle.  (I call this the 'collateral damage rule'.  )

If the same level 6 energy attack was defended with a doubleshot/BU/TU + a power card, or shifted with a special card and blocked then both the BU and the power card would have been discarded. The only difference is that two cards were used in the defense.

This addresses the card advantage issue because though the attack is stopped, you still get the venture bonus so both cards are useful in the attack, one with a lasting affect if defended. It makes these universe cards truly unique and hopefully appealing. 

* The exception to this would be a AD special that says 'Avoid 1 attack made with a Universe card.' Those specials would defeat the attack and stop the venture bonus without needing a 2nd card.