Set of Marvels, properly printed

[Kal-el]

Agree on the borders & look/feel being unique. It would be fun to have some font and design samples and put it to a vote of forum members, if you don't think that would create too much drama.

I agree on different designs and on a potential vote (and also that if it was too much, you guys can just pick, this is your project).

Capping at 54 seems reasonable. That would let 27 people get two sets (which it seems like most want). I feel like that would cover most of the regulars on the boards.

[Jack]

It's not just the forums that we're focusing on, there's a lot of interest on the Facebook page.

[JohnL]

Great idea and I'd definitely be in for a couple of sets for old times sake.

It sounds like you have thought about the copyright issues carefully and, although I'm not a lawyer, I'd just add that the fact that you are not doing this for profit and the fact that you add 'not for sale' on the cards or make people sign something would NOT protect you legally should someone decide to make a big deal out of it. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement.

However it does seem that those are the sorts of things that will make you look like a reasonable fan rather then a counterfeiting pirate and would make it more likely you'd simply attract a 'cease and desist' threatening letter rather than an actual lawsuit.

[Judgeone]

Quote from Jack: "We're trying not to destroy the market for cards that are still worth something on eBay. Printing AP Teamworks will not ruin any market because people who want (and can afford it) will still buy it for collection purposes."
If items are not for resale, then the images can be used by permission. As a former comic shop owner, and official Overpower tournament organizer, we we're given rights to use any comic book company's properties (that allowed it, none come to mind that didn't) we wanted as long as no reselling (yes this info is still current as of last year). T-shirts for example that we're given away to promote your store with comic characters on it we're fine. It's the selling that causes problems. As you all have stated the costs associated to all involved are just to get them printed and not to make a profit. I think you are good to go and the idea is fantastic.
As far as destroying the Ebay market, well, it is very limited as is. Just ask anyone who sells them (IE Orangeking and bornagain79). I'm betting they would love to get their hands on them to sell on e-bay, but really, would there be a big enough market, since most buyers are probably from this site and will buy them here anyway?
Quote from Jack: "We are definitely putting a noticeable disclaimer on the backs of the cards with "NOT FOR RESALE" on it. We're going to be a bit more strict than the "NOT FOR PROFIT" clause we had because we simply want the original buyers to keep them."
Can the disclaimer be put on the front instead of the back for those of us that aren't crazy about using sleeves. That was the problem before with different backs from the DC and Image sets. Basically propping up the then new businesses of card sleeve manufacturing.
** Tiny fact from the powers that be from Op from back in the day. The main reason for battlesites was for people to use all their old 3 stat characters that before battlesites were basically obsolete, and at the time many, many people were upset they had to now buy all the cards again at the new 4 stat. Domzalski and Perazza both confirmed this to me when pressed for an answer.
That being said, count me in for at least 2 sets. 

[Jack]

Thank you for providing that insight.

The only difference I see between our situations is that you had an agreement with the comic book company, possibly informal or explicit, to use their items as long as they weren't resold. We don't have any agreement in place.

There shouldn't be much of a problem printing out the super rares (as long as we use our own art). Orange King said that he was fine with the idea and I stated my arguments above with why it shouldn't matter.

The backs will likely change, we may or may not be using the standard Spider-Man/Wolverine back. We'll definitely change up the logo with the new one I "created".

--

Excellent trivia point for the battlesite and 3-stat heroes, I'll make sure that gets a note somewhere in the wiki.

[Bios]

If items are not for resale, then the images can be used by permission. ... It's the selling that causes problems. As you all have stated the costs associated to all involved are just to get them printed and not to make a profit. I think you are good to go and the idea is fantastic.

Totally agree. Sendind lawyers to take care of such a small thing doesn't even pay lawyers' fees! Otherwise a friend mine should erase a Joker's tatoo from his forearm to avoid been lawsuited by DC/Warner.

The counterfeit issue is what we should worry. It would be real bad to find someone selling those cards on eBay.

[Judgeone]

Yeah, John's right, the 'cease and desist' letter will be long after we all get the cards. If they even monitor this site, or anything to do with OP. What's the odds? Sheesh!

[Jack]

The cease and desist may also include the destruction of the infringing material.

I've done some reason, maybe someone wants to give these a look through:

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-is-the-line-between-fair-use-and-blatant-infr-439623.html
http://weeklycomicbookreview.com/2010/12/01/copyright-issues-in-comic-books-the-basics/
http://weeklycomicbookreview.com/2011/01/03/trademarks-in-comic-books-a-primer/

From the above, we cannot scan in art from comic books and put them the cards.

[JohnL]

Unfortunately I don't think ANYONE would care about the Overpower logos and mechanics any more! (I say unfortunately because if they did care they might start making sets again!) Someone must own the copyright but my guess is that whoever does has zero interest and may not even know they own it (did it go from Fleer/Skybox to Marvel Interactive to Disney?). It's not exactly worth very much without characters to play with.

Overpower required the license to make a CCG using characters from various comic universes. This was easy to obtain for Marvel because Fleer already held the exclusive right to make trading cards from Marvel characters even back when they were separate companies. THIS is the license that was ultimately lost (to WotC probably because Marvel desperately needed cash) and caused the end of Overpower. There was talk of continuing Overpower with other, more minor, presses but this came to nothing.

The exclusive right to produce a CCG based on Marvel characters IS something that may still have some worth. The character likenesses of Marvel, DC and Image characters likewise have value and may be defended but I really don't think it's that likely in this case as long as it doesn't become too explicit.

It may even be legal to make a set of cards and to sell the cards for profit as long as you don't use the official logos, use the name Overpower, or use any copyright images. You could sell them as 'compatible with 1997's most popular superhero CCG' (like they sell all those cheap Lego imitations). For example making a whole new set of Universe cards - Tree, lampost, tire etc that people may even want to use. Same with artifacts - although you'd have to use copyright free artifacts such as the Holy Grail rather than, say, the Infinity Gauntlet.

[Jack]

The trademark for OverPower (USPTO serial: 74625899) expired in August 2007 so my recreation of the logo is very legal. Using the Marvel logo above it will be illegal though hence why my logo is just the bottom triangle. The same goes for DC and Image.

The reason why we might not be able to use the Spider-Man/Wolverine image is copyright, it would be an exact replication and may give the impression that it is an official product. After reviewing the above documents, I'm going to say we will be designing a new back.

[Jesse]

The cease and desist may also include the destruction of the infringing material.

I've done some reason, maybe someone wants to give these a look through:

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-is-the-line-between-fair-use-and-blatant-infr-439623.html
http://weeklycomicbookreview.com/2010/12/01/copyright-issues-in-comic-books-the-basics/
http://weeklycomicbookreview.com/2011/01/03/trademarks-in-comic-books-a-primer/

From the above, we cannot scan in art from comic books and put them the cards.

I know when I played HeroClix people started getting custom dice made of their favorite heroes/villains. It wasn't too bad until one guy had dozens of different sets made and started to sell them in the HeroClix forums  he received a cease and desist pretty quick. I also know the moderators on the site had to inform everyone that had dice made that they 'had' to be for personal use and could not be for any type of gain. So IMO someone in the Marvel/Disney community will 'know' eventually but as long as know one sells them it shoulnd't end up frustrating them too much.


And on a side note - I like the borders that Onslaught had on his set that he got printed - just wanted to throw that out there.

[Judgeone]

To Jesse's point, that was when the game (Heroclix) was still popular.  They monitor that when they have their own forums. OP and it's trademark are long dead. It's also very possible to get permission, sometimes without paying for it. This is a non-profit idea after all.
Game mechanics trademark is also dead, so with enough capital it could be up again, just as John stated, without copyright infringed names and characters. Unless permission for licensing from Marv... er, Disney was granted.

[Jack]

Going through the fair use article on Wikipedia, there are 4 factors needed to judge fair use: purpose and character, nature of the copied work, amount and substantiality and effect upon work's value.

Purpose and character: As long as we convert what we use into something better, fair use applies. We're also converting it into a card.
Nature of the copied work: The art we would use was intended for public consumption and not a private collection.
Amount and substantiality: We're using pictures that is likely a part of a book or something similar; so extracting from comic books is okay but extracting from trading cards would be wrong.
Effect upon work's value: We won't be infringing on the copyright holder's market for the comic book or whatever.

[mattkoz]

So when do we delete all traces of this thread and come up with code names for the project? 

[Jesse]

So when do we delete all traces of this thread and come up with code names for the project? 

LOL. Outstanding. 

da da da dada da da da dada deedle deee......our mission if you choose to except it......Marvels......