at what point is a play illegal?

[breadmaster]

suppose i have a tw or ally that was usable when the round started, but i've lost the followups (say through defense)

if i play an ally/tw and it kills the last character, we go immediately to venture count (as evidenced by previous rulings, like say a team +6 to venture total not being allowed to be played). 

one is never forced (i believe) to reveal your hand after the last character is ko'd.  would this greasy move be legal?

[Bios]

As far as I know, you don't need to reveal your hand when a battle ends. But you have to discard your cards faced up in the piles.

If you won't discard more than one special or power card, your opponent can easely find you were cheating. Otherwise you can hide your dirty move...

Just for the records, we are just talking about an hyphotetical situation, since none of us would ever try it! 

[breadmaster]

i agree it's dirty, but what i'm wondering is, after you discard the cards, is it too late to call a renege?

[BigBadHarve]

suppose i have a tw or ally that was usable when the round started, but i've lost the followups (say through defense)

if i play an ally/tw and it kills the last character, we go immediately to venture count (as evidenced by previous rulings, like say a team +6 to venture total not being allowed to be played). 

one is never forced (i believe) to reveal your hand after the last character is ko'd.  would this greasy move be legal?

Actually, with ANY discard you must show your opponent the face of the card(s) you're pitching. So if you try and cheat that way, you'll be caught by anyone who's paying attention - because at the end of the round you are required to show the faces of your remaining cards as you discard them.

-BBH

[breadmaster]

i wasn't planning on trying this myself, i was just wondering when exactly it's a rules violation

is it illegal the moment i play a card that requires a follow up i can't make.  or is it illegal when i fail to make that follow up.

also, under tournament rules, it was explained to me you must call a rules violation at the time it is made, otherwise the illegal move stays

just semantics i realize

[gameplan.exe]

i wasn't planning on trying this myself, i was just wondering when exactly it's a rules violation

is it illegal the moment i play a card that requires a follow up i can't make.  or is it illegal when i fail to make that follow up.

also, under tournament rules, it was explained to me you must call a rules violation at the time it is made, otherwise the illegal move stays

just semantics i realize

I would say that it's illegal the moment you play it, knowing you have no follow up. Like you said, though, if no one can call your "bluff" in that moment, then I'm not sure they can afterward... I guess it'd be kind of like taunting your opponent in Scrabble by pointing out the fact that a few turns earlier you played a word that doesn't exist. It's illegal at the time it's played, but if it goes unchallenged in that moment 

[Palatinus]

I think it is as Ncann says.  It is illegal to play the card without having the follow up but you may be able to slip it by on a technicality.  I think the answer to the original question is that it is illegal at the time of play regardless of whether you could get away with it.

[Bios]

i agree it's dirty, but what i'm wondering is, after you discard the cards, is it too late to call a renege?

About that renege thing... Is there an official penalty?

[BigBadHarve]

About that renege thing... Is there an official penalty?

Yes, though it usually doesn't come up in fun, casual games. In a tournament, if you call a renege on the round, it immediately ends, and the offending player loses the round. I had this happen to me at the regionals back in '98... I accidentally kept a dupe of my trick transport, thinking one was a Bamf!. I'd bet three that round too... my opponent called me on it, and I had to accept the renege. *sigh* That round cost me the match in the long run. But such is the way of things.

I've never seen it happen, but if you call a renege on an illegal deck construction, my understanding is that the offending player immediately forfeits the entire match.

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

About that renege thing... Is there an official penalty?

Yes, though it usually doesn't come up in fun, casual games. In a tournament, if you call a renege on the round, it immediately ends, and the offending player loses the round. I had this happen to me at the regionals back in '98... I accidentally kept a dupe of my trick transport, thinking one was a Bamf!. I'd bet three that round too... my opponent called me on it, and I had to accept the renege. *sigh* That round cost me the match in the long run. But such is the way of things.

I've never seen it happen, but if you call a renege on an illegal deck construction, my understanding is that the offending player immediately forfeits the entire match.

-BBH

by "round" do you mean "hand"? that is, to clarify, you didn't lose that round of the tournament, did you?

[BigBadHarve]

About that renege thing... Is there an official penalty?

Yes, though it usually doesn't come up in fun, casual games. In a tournament, if you call a renege on the round, it immediately ends, and the offending player loses the round. I had this happen to me at the regionals back in '98... I accidentally kept a dupe of my trick transport, thinking one was a Bamf!. I'd bet three that round too... my opponent called me on it, and I had to accept the renege. *sigh* That round cost me the match in the long run. But such is the way of things.

I've never seen it happen, but if you call a renege on an illegal deck construction, my understanding is that the offending player immediately forfeits the entire match.

-BBH

by "round" do you mean "hand"? that is, to clarify, you didn't lose that round of the tournament, did you?

Yes, I meant that particular hand.

-BBH