here's a hypothetical - Beyonder plays Gift of the Gods

[The Dude]

Beyonder plays Gift of the Gods. Is he limited to retrieving only Thor specials or can he can grab any special he can play (i.e. any non-opd special in the deck for all three teammates)

[BigBadHarve]

Any special playable by him. Even though it says Choose any 'Thor' special, once played through Beyonder it technically now reads choose any 'Beyonder' special. The same would apply to any other card that names the character. For example - if you used Beyonder and Storm and through Beyonder played 'No Universe cards may be played against Storm for remainder of battle' you would simply substitute 'Storm' for 'Beyonder.'

-BBH

[Karmanal of Zert]

I concur completely, BBH!

[The Dude]

I was leaning in the same direction since the name substitution is how activator cards tend to work but this seemed to be a more unique case that probably never came up in real Overpower since Beyonder can't legally team with Thor or Inhumans. (but thanks to Homemades I'll be playing a team this week where such a combo is now possible)

[gameplan.exe]

what about this rule regarding which specials can be played, and whether or not they are treated as belonging to the character playing them?

The Special Access Inherent
"May Play any (character name) Special cards."

Activated: From the onset of the game.

Rules:

Inherent Abilities that grant the use of other cards always allow the character to both play them as well as place them.
The cards usable through an Inherent Ability may be put into the Draw Pile without having a character on the team who can use the card without an Inherent Ability or other modification.
Special cards which are usable through an Inherent Ability are not considered as that character's Specials. For example, if Storm: Neutralized were to play a CQ Special via an Activator, which would double all Storm Specials, any Morlock non-OPD Specials that Storm: Neutralized plays would not be doubled by the effect of the Special.*
Character Examples:

...
Beyonder (i-i-i-i) "May play any Special cards."
...

^{*emphasis added}

Doesn't this mean that, since Thor's GIFT OF THE GODS doesn't actually belong to The Beyonder, but to Thor, it would still be restricted to retrieving only Thor's Specials (which are still playable by Beyonder, of course)?

[BigBadHarve]

what about this rule regarding which specials can be played, and whether or not they are treated as belonging to the character playing them?

The Special Access Inherent
"May Play any (character name) Special cards."

Activated: From the onset of the game.

Rules:

Inherent Abilities that grant the use of other cards always allow the character to both play them as well as place them.
The cards usable through an Inherent Ability may be put into the Draw Pile without having a character on the team who can use the card without an Inherent Ability or other modification.
Special cards which are usable through an Inherent Ability are not considered as that character's Specials. For example, if Storm: Neutralized were to play a CQ Special via an Activator, which would double all Storm Specials, any Morlock non-OPD Specials that Storm: Neutralized plays would not be doubled by the effect of the Special.*
Character Examples:

...
Beyonder (i-i-i-i) "May play any Special cards."
...

^{*emphasis added}

Doesn't this mean that, since Thor's GIFT OF THE GODS doesn't actually belong to The Beyonder, but to Thor, it would still be restricted to retrieving only Thor's Specials (which are still playable by Beyonder, of course)?

That's a fair point. And according to the letter of the rules, you'd be correct.

I never knew anyone to play it that way, and the issue never came up in tournaments, so I have no anecdote to indicate the contrary.

-BBH

[steve2275]

what about
same thing? it all says specific character

[Jack]

Same.

[gameplan.exe]

I'm not so sure, Jack. The DS cards specify the character's ownership of the Specials affected. The Hawkeye card only says "... number of Special cards..." which is open-ended, as opposed to "... number of Hawkeye Special cards..." which would be restrictive. I think. lol

[Jack]

I was confused with the posting, I didn't follow through with the context of the topic that was posted more than a year ago.

Gift of Gods would be limited to only searching for Thor cards from the deck. Hawkeye's card would still enable Beyonder to place as much as possible.

[Demacus]

If what Jack just posted is accurate, then to play Gift of the Gods from a battlesite would restrict the player to search through his deck for only "Thor's" special cards, which, if they are following rules of locations, the deck would NOT contain any Thor Special cards...

[Jack]

The literal way to play special cards (via a proxy manner -- activator or clone/variant) would be to replace all name of the hero (seen on the left of a special) with the character actually playing the card. So, in regular context, without a proxy; you would replace, say Sentinels, with Sentinels and continue as normal. Via a proxy, you would replace Sentinels with Bastion.

So, when playing DS from Beyonder, you would then "Choose one Beyonder Special from Draw Pile and place in hand.". Going by logic, there aren't any Beyonder specials in  the draw pile and your turn is over. Though, this ruling breaks when Beta Ray Bill plays the DS. BRB doesn't have any named specials either..

So, two outcomes are possible:
Treat DS cards literally, so when it says Choose a Thor Special, you only choose Thor specials.
Allow DS to search for any card playable by CPS.

[BigBadHarve]

My understanding of it was this:

From the Battlesite, said card becomes "Choose any <character playing the card> special from the draw pile."

When played from the front line, it remains 'Choose any THOR (or whomever) special from the draw pile.' So, even if Beyonder plays Gift of the Gods, he is still limited to a THOR special. (Unless, of course, he's playing it from the site.)

-BBH

[Demacus]

Interesting...  why would it change for Beyonder from the Battle site but not if he were to simply play it?  What if that Event from Assualt on Onslaught (Fighting Spirit Lives?) were in play?  Would that change the wording of your teammate to allow it to search for THEIR special, or would they still be restricted to a Thor special?

[BigBadHarve]

All cards in the battlesite essentially change to become a special belonging to the character that played it. It's not limited to things like Gift of the Gods. This is a rule that is specific to Battlesites (And Any heroes, but no such card exists on the Any Hero side of things)  The text of the card is considered to be altered by the rules governing battlesites.

Whereas the Beyonder is only allowed to play teammate's specials. Therefore he's not playing a 'Beyonder' special. The text is not altered as with battlesites, therefore you must adhere to the printed text.

The same goes for Variants. As Jack says, Beta Ray Bill playing Gift of the Gods must still summon a Thor special.

With Fighting Spirit lives, I would argue the same. The event simply allows you to play the special, it doesn't alter the text of the special. So you'd still have to summon a THOR special even if you played Gift of the Gods through someone else. Of course, with that event in play, that someone else would still be able to use it anyway.

As I said, that was my understanding of how went. I may be wrong, but it was logical to me based on the rules at hand.

-BBH