Doug Simms will be hosting the OP Cup 2014 on Friday August 1 and Saturday August 2 in Columbus Ohio at Heroes and Games (400 North High Street Columbus, Ohio 43215).
Information will be posted as it becomes available.
It's going to be a blast!
Can't wait! See y'all there!
i here friday is battlesite only. is that the plan?
Hmmm, this is actually very tempting. It's drive-able for me, and I could even crash in Cincy with friends to save on the hotel. Any idea what times?
That's some of the details we're working on. Likely 10 to 11AM on Saturday for the main tournament. It's an 7 hour drive for the Toronto folks so if we're hoping for a 6PM or 7PM on the Friday event. Details need to be ironed out with Doug Simms.
Ending times are always inflated, assuming the same format for the main tournament, we should be done by 7PM on Saturday.
From the Facebook page:
Friday will be a homebase tournament, with Marvels being legal.
Saturday will be 8 rounds of Swiss followed by 2 rounds of split elimination. 40 minute rounds.
will proxies be allowed?
i'm sure the standard answer will apply "only colour proxies of the Marvels set will be allowed"
Does anyone know if host store sells OP cards singles or packs? Is The Orange One bringing his store?
each host makes their own rules, so I might as well try!
I would wanna play a multi five. Proxy is the only way that'll work
writing cards down on a piece of paper doesnt count either
since i cant make it ill be leaving now
Quote from: AO user on June 11, 2014, 09:13:09 PM
Does anyone know if host store sells OP cards singles or packs? Is The Orange One bringing his store?
Hi,
I plan on bringing the store. Doug said it would be okay.
Larry
theOrangeOne
Hey boys let's get an update here. Some excitement. A prize list. Doug's shoe size. Something here lol.
Well how about I throw my own update for the OP cup 2014(ps Canadians are very inclined to cups. Grey cup, Stanley cup). Might have to add this cup to my own trophy case.
Yes you have officially heard it here on palatinus forum.
Not since Lebron, has a GOD been to Ohio.
The OP GOD will be in attendance.
Oh. And Daddys got lots of BIG BOY cards
Will you be there?
M
OP GOD
Phil Keffer will be there.
Will you be there??
Hey all,
I'm just getting back into OP after a 10+ year absence and I was going to try to make it to this event. I'm starting to build my deck and I had a few questions:
Are there any characters that are banned from tournament play or that are really played out?
Is it ok to use the same deck for both days as long as it has a homebase? (I don't have a sizeable collection yet, so building 2 playable decks might be too expensive)
Anything else that I should know as someone who hasn't played in a decade?
Thanks!
Nothing has been banned. Plenty of characters are overused, as you may find on Saturday, but nothing banned.
I'm pretty sure that you'd be able to use the same deck both days. The 2nd day is a standard construction format, so as long as your deck is tournament legal, you're good to go.
Quote from: poneill378 on July 13, 2014, 10:45:46 AM
Hey all
Is it ok to use the same deck for both days as long as it has a homebase? (I don't have a sizeable collection yet, so building 2 playable decks might be too expensive)
Thanks!
maybe you can buy some cards from the orange king
No prizes for this tournament in two weeks. ??? How do you expect to get people excited. ???
Help us out here Doug,Phil.
M.
OP GOD
Quote from: steve2275 on July 14, 2014, 02:51:49 AM
Quote from: poneill378 on July 13, 2014, 10:45:46 AM
Hey all
Is it ok to use the same deck for both days as long as it has a homebase? (I don't have a sizeable collection yet, so building 2 playable decks might be too expensive)
Thanks!
maybe you can buy some cards from the orange king
I definitely intend to.
Does anyone know if Marvels proxies will be available also?
Marvel Proxies are available through the Orange King as well.
Prizes:
Quote from: Phil MillerCash prizes for 1st and 2nd place. 75% for 1st place and 25% for 2nd. We are working on the remaining prize support at the moment. I know 7th and 8th will be receiving Adam Warlock figures from PowerSurge set with the Adam Warlock OP card.
So..I booked a room at the Knights Inn, for the OP Cup. However I have not played an actual game in years. In fact, I have never even played a game using locations. I know I will most likely have my butt handed to me, but I want so much to be a part of this, I dont care. I could use some help building decks though. Could someone run down the basics for me, as simply as possible, so that I can build a deck for each day that is tounament legal. I will be arriving thusday in Columbus. If anyone else is around perhaps we could even play some Overpower.
Thank you
you ever practiced against yourself?
Proxies -
I do make high quality printouts of the Marvels. I have permission from Mike and Jack to print them. I charge .50 each to cover the paper and ink costs.
I will have them available for the OP Cup!
If you want them earlier, just contact me.
Thanks,
Larry
Have fun and good luck everyone! Wish I could make it...
We're driving through London.. I'm not driving though so I'm not sure if we can give you a lift.
Quote from: Jack on July 24, 2014, 04:05:01 PM
We're driving through London.. I'm not driving though so I'm not sure if we can give you a lift.
I really, really appreciate even the suggestion that you'd be willing to do that, but I won't be in London that weekend :( I have family obligations in Sauble.
I hope you'd be willing to make the same consideration for future tournaments though!
It only made sense to head to Michigan to get to Columbus from Waterloo, other trips are through Buffalo.
good luck players
So who won?
Marcel (OP GOD) took first place, completely undefeated.
Phil K. (Bluefire) took 2nd place.
I took third place.
Phil M. took 4th.
I don't recall the rest of the standings. I'm sure the full round breakdown will be posted soon.
I thought Josh took 4th. Unless we're counting just rankings.
Right.
Josh (Odbjosh) took 4th, Phil Miller took 5th.
Just a bit of stats on the decks used:
Any Heroes accounted for 8 of 18 decks, 10 decks were using Battlesites
Most used character was tied between X-Babies, Scarlet Witch and Dr. Strange with 6 each.
Most popular Battlesite was Onslaught's Citadel with 6 decks.
There were 5 Beyonder decks.
I just wanted to say I had a awesome time, Doug and Phil was most excellent hosts! Thanks everyone for a great couple of days.
Hello OP minions.
People have Inboxed me. The masses have asked, how could one player be so dominant?
Well in the immortal words of one of wrestling's best and a fellow Canadian Bret Hart.
When it comes to Overpower and the OP GOD
I AM
"The Best There Is, the Best There Was, the Best There Ever Will Be"
Wanna prove me wrong? OCTOBER 17-19/2014. Overpower Championships.
What's wrong now? Got scared.
I'll be there.
Marcel
OP GOD
to be the man you gotta beat the man whooooo!!!!!!!
Quote from: steve2275 on August 09, 2014, 06:49:08 AM
to be the man you gotta beat the man whooooo!!!!!!!
who indeed.
Round 1 videos will be posted today. Rounds 2 and 3 will be posted on Monday.
Round 1:
http://youtu.be/LajgkVUtjXM Mike Sutton vs Doug Simms
http://youtu.be/qed9MSY-u64 Mark Bryson vs Phil Keffer
http://youtu.be/jvw8L6-AWKM Garion Sutton vs Cory Simms
http://youtu.be/eL9eUeVPFn8 Danny McGlynn vs Sean Ballantyne
i like garrion's team of x
i like his use of Captain Britain but I couldn't figure out a way to use him in a team i'm making for the next tournament
Round 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDf5vrUTb-Y Sean Ballantyne vs Marcel Lojet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovAg-9Ao6w Josh Alexander vs Myles Head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy81R39ScKc Bret Reed vs Phil Keffer
http://youtu.be/ZlL-DuULuqY Garion Sutton vs Mike Sutton
wait
do danny and garrion have the exact same dr. strange and team of x?
My mistake. That is actually Garion vs Mike.
Does anyone know who won the championship tournament?
Marcel won the tournament.
Marcel won the OP Cup.
The championship tournament has not happened yet.
Rounds 3 and 4 for the weekend!
http://youtu.be/GJnP0aQeJmQ Ed Kowalewski vs Danny McGlynn
http://youtu.be/OkUErX4h0Ug Marcel Lojet vs Mike Sutton
http://youtu.be/ZlMwZMyAxy0 Doug Simms vs Chris Vezina
http://youtu.be/-u8h5R-ztis Myles Head vs Phil Keffer
http://youtu.be/xHUdUAZSC6Q Phil Keffer vs Marcel Lojet
http://youtu.be/Cdty2n4FVks Jack Truong vs Bret Reed
http://youtu.be/-Oio9W_BVck Carl Caroffino vs Myles Head
http://youtu.be/yXPyfjzSSlQ Mike Sutton vs Sean Ballantyne
Thanks Jack, these were good...i like how close that Mike Vs Sean was...
Quote from: chuu on September 12, 2014, 11:30:29 PM
Thanks Jack, these were good...i like how close that Mike Vs Sean was...
Yeah, betting 7 is always a gamble. But it paid off a few times that tournament. Two games I bet 7 in the opening round and won, two other matches I bet 6 in the 2nd round, won both of those times too.
Nice, effective team. Let's see if I can start a new Galactus trend! :P
ive been a GALACTUS reserve man for years
same with the all 7 in move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkUErX4h0Ug&feature=youtu.be
illegal use of image inducer at 29:21
Quote from: steve2275 on September 17, 2014, 10:42:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkUErX4h0Ug&feature=youtu.be
illegal use of image inducer at 29:21
How was it illegal? He shifted the hit, and then milled two cards to his dead pile....
Quote from: BigBadHarve on September 17, 2014, 11:58:16 AM
Quote from: steve2275 on September 17, 2014, 10:42:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkUErX4h0Ug&feature=youtu.be
illegal use of image inducer at 29:21
How was it illegal? He shifted the hit, and then milled two cards to his dead pile....
it was there for 2 extra battles
shoulda been discarded at 16:37
Ah! So it was! I had to scroll back quite a bit to see that.... Yikes!
It seems there's a reckonin' coming for the OP GOD! ;)
Quote from: BigBadHarve on September 17, 2014, 12:33:02 PM
Ah! So it was! I had to scroll back quite a bit to see that.... Yikes!
It seems there's a reckonin' coming for the OP GOD! ;)
i feel a bob seger song coming on
http://www.metrolyrics.com/shakedown-lyrics-bob-seger.html
Breakdown, takedown, you're busted
Not only the amount of cheating in this tournament should be noted here, but the pay out as well. Cheating whether "intentional" or not is still cheating, and shouldn't be rewarded like we now see after Columbus.
The onus can't solely be placed on a single individual to catch these acts of cheating. It's doubtlessly unfair to the rest of the field, and only serves to promote exploitive play.
I don't now about any of you, but I know my own output could benefit greatly from such play. The sound of being 300$ richer is quite appealing to me, and would put up more than a fight versus any preconceived notion of "honor," as the punishment is virtually nonexistent.
Hey Garion ,
Not quite sure of your thought train here. I know you have some residual bad blood from a renege that happened in the same tournament. I must say your using big words, as in claiming there was a lot of "cheating" that occurred in Columbus. Mistakes happen, as we can see I made one blatantly via the image inducer. However, not that I need to claim my innocence, but it was an error. Just like the error I noticed where Doug Simms goes first against Chris vezina after his bet 5, even though it was Chris who should have went first. These errors do happen in tournaments, when discovered all renege rules are followed, when not discovered by either party play continues.
Now to touch on what I think you were getting at. $300 is a lot of money to some people and you may find yourself in a scenario that someone is purposefully cheating against you. I would assure you as one of the organizers of tournaments. That our group is still very small and a life time ban would be implemented for any actively caught cheaters.
If you were implying I cheated my way to 10-0 and the tournament prize. I will have personal words with you, at another time. My games are recorded and I personally played you as well.
I want people to remember, that despite most of us being grown and mature men. (A few women) There are always bad apples.
Cheating will not be tolerated at the championships and would be an immediate removal (possible broken thumbs)
Before the tournament we will cover renege's and the steps.
As for your particular incedent at the OP cup, it was handled properly and I understand your frustration as you feel your were not rewarded for your opponent making that mistake. However, you did receive the venture for the round and all renege rules were followed. So please elaborate on your thoughts. Those are mine.
Marcel
OP GOD
PS. Sorry about the error mike.
Wow, I actually agree with Hot Rod 100% on this one. People who cheat suck. Makes a fun game no fun at all. There is no room for that in the Overpower community.
So if someone is caught cheating after a tournament, what happens? Do they have to give back the prize money? Will 2nd place be rewarded the victory? In the NCAA, when teams are caught cheating, even if its 5-years after the fact, they forfeit all of their wins during the duration of their cheating. Like Lance Armstrong being stripped of his Tour De France victories. It sucks for the guy in 2nd place, cause he doesn't get to properly celebrate his victory after a long time of thinking he was the best loser, and nobody will really ever remember him as the champion, but it seems like the right thing to do.
In this case, I think it may be a bit heavy to make Marcel forfeit his 1st place prize for such a seemingly innocent renege. And obviously, he isn't giving you any of his prize money back. But I do think these "official Canadian OP rankings" should be adjusted, showing Marcel as having a loss in the game he cheated in. Cheating is not acceptable at all, especially in the friendly overpower community. I mean, I absolutely hate it when I cheat at overpower and get caught... wait, did i say that out loud? Anyway, you all must give Marcel tons of credit here, he had the balls to cheat while being recorded, takes the prize money and shove it in your face a month after the fact when you finally realize it. Like a boss, a true OP God... at cheating. To be clear, by the word cheat i obviously mean "Innocent Mistakes", of course.
The moral of this story is, "Kids, if you absolutely must cheat (make errors), don't do it while being recorded, cause you will likely get caught when people watch the video".
On a side note, I did notice in Marcel's game against Sean Valentine, at the 7:00 mark Sean plays the New Warriors card saying the opponent cannot play strength cards for remainder of battle. Marcel immediately picks up the card, and reads it over. Then on his next offensive action tries to attack with an A-Next. Sean of course, told him to get that crap out here. For an OP God, Marcel clearly makes alot of innocent mistakes. Could it of been Marcel trying to exploit his opponent into making a mistake? Only one person knows. With no penalty, and Marcel just putting his A-next back on his Team Overpower and acting like he didn't try to play it, it was worth a shot to him to try and catch his opponent sleeping. Nothing to lose. Seems as if part of his strategy is to do whatever the hell he wants, and makes you have to call him out on it, and if you dont he gets away with cheating, and if you do, he loses nothing.
I would be watching "Mr. I look cool with my hood and sunglasses on indoors" very closely at the Overpower Championship.
Dont be mad at my opinion.
Edit: As i'm watching these videos Marcel, you are really starting to piss me off. I used to respect you man, but looking into the camera after you win a battle and saying "CANT BLUFF ME, SON!" makes you look like a fucking idiot. I would seriously slap the shit out of you if you said something like that while sitting across the table from me. Real talk.
There's really no way to know if someone is explicitly cheating or not. I'm sure the Image Inducer was kept on by accident, I really hope it was an accident.
Marcel should have known that he was shifting every round without playing it. Around the 30 minute mark, Marcel should have pointed out to Mike that the Inducer was kept on for much longer than it should have.
Was Marcel cheating? I hope not.
Was he being dishonest? Likely.
However, it wasn't caught by Mike. There's really not much we can do as judges in this scenario. If Mike were to ask for a judge's ruling, we probably would have given Marcel an immediate loss. But the game continued for another 18 minutes.
The job of the judges is to answer, truthfully, any question that comes up and resolve issues. This issue was not brought up in this match so none of us were aware.
Is there anything that can be done for the OP Cup 2014? No. Marcel has a 10-0 record that is now tainted. In the future, the only "ruling" I would make is that your own cards with a lasting duration should never be in the permanent record for any reason. With both players using possible identical sleeves, it just adds to the confusion.
i think it's up to the opposing player to catch "cheating" or "mistakes" whatever they might be. At one tournament I played at, my opponent played the KO event, I preceeded to KO my character and he asked the Judge something about another card and then continued to play normally. He either forgot to KO his character or did that intentionally, regardless, I should have been paying better attention. Also, I personally don't think $300 is enough money to get bent out of shape for.
I think the accusations are getting out of hand here.
Knowing all the players involved, I think it's safe to say that Marcel wasn't cheating. A mistake was clearly made, as happens, but to call him out as a cheater (in anything other than a friendly ribbing) is completely unfair. I don't think he was being dishonest either. The game days can be long and constant concentration will lead to any number of mental hiccups. We have all done it - Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, so to speak....
We are not the NCAA or any other worldwide sports organization. We are a ragtag collective of people playing a dead card game. I think alienating one another with needless hate won't serve anyone. An error happened, it wasn't noticed until after the fact, we move on.
It behooves us all to be vigilant in our own plays as well as the plays of others.
As for the renege rules, we have already discussed options to fix the issue Hot Rod had at OP Cup. Standard Renege rules were followed in that case, but most of us agree that in this case it wasn't quite enough of a penalty, so a I believe an adjustment to the system will be in play for October.
I agree 100% with BBH.
Perhaps this is a conversation that is more suited offline, by those involved, instead of on this public forum designed to generate interest in the game we all seem to care greatly about.
In my aforementioned message I stated "there are always bad apples". If this wasn't proved almost immediately by our local DBAG DR DOUSCHE. I am one to usually keep my cool, as I believe to be mature in my young age. So I waited to respond, threats are always stronger when you troll from behind your keyboard. At least skype me and make the threat. Lol. (Real talk).
I will not respond to anything else from this guy. All in the ACTIVE playing overpower community, knows I'm a stand up person and have high moral standards.
I have already personally messaged several people in regards to this issue.
It saddens me, because we make these videos to help people learn and to promote the game. It seems they are being used to comb over and ridicule peoples plays. I just hope people still want to be on camera at the championships.
If anyone has further issues, please message me personally.
Marcel
(https://i.imgflip.com/c8tjp.gif)
Is there a list of decks that were used at the tournament somewhere? I'm not trying to knock anyone, I just find it interesting that a Spawn deck with no EE and Any Heroes was able to go undefeated over a pretty large (for a tournament) sample size. Were there no H4H decks in attendance?
Great video coverage as always.
ladies and gentlemen, in this corner, from Toronto/Ontario/Canada, sean 'the hammer' valentine!
out of curiosity, what is the issue hot rod brought up about a different reneg. I think I have an idea, but it seems to be a hot topic
@ Onslaught: There's a list somewhere, I think Jack has it. I remember a sheet going around so that everyone could note their teams and battlesites.
@ Breadman: Hot Rod had a situation where after venturing, the opponent conceded before the battle and was revealed to have a dead card in his hand that should have been discarded.
Because the round had already been conceded, the renege didn't make a difference. But Hot Rod would have ventured an additional card had be known the other player was one card less.
In the end, Hot Rod lost that match by the one card he didn't venture because it went to time.
Unfortunately, that's why reneges should be an automatic game loss (and if it was intentional, a disqualification). Looking back on OP tournaments, I only saw people cheating a handful of times and it was usually in pretty basic ways (like keeping a dupe, using an HQ during battle, and playing the duped card from hand after the HQ so that they could claim it was drawn in the middle of the turn). Since I was youngish, I am sure there were a lot of situations where someone did something insidious that looked like an honest mistake and I just let it slide. In retrospect, it is insanely easy to gain dishonest advantages due to the nature of venturing/conceding.
Not that I'm saying anyone that still plays the game would even care to attempt something like this, but Hot Rod's situation shows that even accidental reneges are completely game warping.
I proposed a rule change a while back that wasn't as harsh as an auto-loss, but was still quite devastating
after the ventured cards are moved, each discovered reneg causes the at fault player to move an additional mission down, and the other player an additional card up. that way, the penalty is severe enough to discourage cheating
ex: hideout discovered event is played (no tw). opponent concedes before battle, but has 2 teamworks in hand. after we move the ventured cards, I get to move 2 more up (1 from defeated to completed, or 2 missions up 1 level), and opponent must move 2 more down
http://overpower.ca/wiki/OP_Cup_2014
I don't have the pairings yet, been extremely busy.
For reneges, BBH and I were discussing it and we're looking at letting the 'victim' of the bad play win the venture and also move a bonus card up 1 pile. The offender loses the venture but with no other penalty. We normally don't see reneges happening in our tournaments so we don't have a formal ruling outlined minus the automatic win/loss of the battle.
I would support the idea of the winner of a battle getting an additional venture for each illegal card in the opponents hand. That seems right to me.
As for Marcel, I would certainly hope and expect that he would not be willing to knowingly cheat. That being said, after knowing this guy for 17 years now, I am certain that he is not dumb enough to blatantly cheap on camera.
Hope that helps and I hope to see you all at the OP Championship!
Phil Keffer
Seeing as I was on the receiving end of one of these "mistakes," I'll take that to mean I'm one of those without sin.
Drdeath elaborated my thoughts on this quite well: there is simply no penalty for this type of play. Constantly pushing your opponent to catch these "mistakes" is ridiculous, and has no place among friends. The example given with the A-Next while Rage is in play is perfect. Where have we ever seen someone have a renege called for such a play? The answer is: never.
The fact that someone "innocently mistook" so badly, yet didn't have the integrity to police themselves troubles me deeply. Doug Simms had the right of it in his match vs Sean at the last Peach Bridge tournament. He nobly conceded the match to Sean for his game defining mistake.
Enforcement of rules for such a game defining renege means nothing. The rules must be adequate first, as was shown in my case, they currently are not.
Round 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnt0rDsCHcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCR0yr7qYsA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6x0y6uvgJ4
Round 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6mJluZ8aL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnEou978oI
Round 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObKScAwDACs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcsM-pucuKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TwdWvKExTE
Round 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42oDak2hSt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2g3EmLXoVA
Quote from: Jack on September 18, 2014, 11:57:10 PM
Round 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnt0rDsCHcg
i find it funny larry and mike forgot about the event that is still in play at 34:00
To reply to Marcel's point about people only watching these videos to critique peoples play. Well, we are watching the videos for entertainment, but its really easy to notice when someone makes a misplay, that's the only reason we bring it up.
As for Jack's ruling about reneges. I honestly dont think its strong enough. What if someone had like 4 discards, but instead reneged to keep 8 cards in hand. They are going to concede and loose the battle anyway, but if your opponent saw you discard 4 they would always bet 3 or 4 more missions than they would normally. So in that case you only gain 1 mission its not strong enough. I say no mercy on reneges, and propose that you lose the game for any reneges. But a stipulation to leave it up to the guy who caught the reneg to be able to say "oh it wasent a big deal, ill just take this battle win and my +1 instead of making this guy forfeit the game". An honorable way. If that makes any sense.
This post is getting too serious, lets lighten up the mood. Who's in for some overpower jokes? I got a few....
Q: What would the leader of the KKK call Marcel Lojet?
A: A Renegger (sorry if that offends anyone, its a joke. Marcel is asking for it anyway with his offensive name he chose on this board)
Q: If Marcel and Jack started a business thats goal was to track down stolen cars, what would they name it?
A: Lojack
Q: If Dr.Death was a real doctor, what operation would he mostly perform?
A: Doushing, obviously
I think that lightened the mood, Anyone got anymore?
bad joke perhaps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnEou978oI
20:28 that a new one to me
Quote from: drdeath25 on September 19, 2014, 02:33:27 PM
As for Jack's ruling about reneges. I honestly dont think its strong enough. What if someone had like 4 discards, but instead reneged to keep 8 cards in hand. They are going to concede and loose the battle anyway, but if your opponent saw you discard 4 they would always bet 3 or 4 more missions than they would normally. So in that case you only gain 1 mission its not strong enough. I say no mercy on reneges, and propose that you lose the game for any reneges. But a stipulation to leave it up to the guy who caught the reneg to be able to say "oh it wasent a big deal, ill just take this battle win and my +1 instead of making this guy forfeit the game". An honorable way. If that makes any sense.
That would be the worst possible thing to happen. With the prize pools now involving money and getting much more extravagant, I'd really hate to have someone lose any match on their second hand because they accidentally kept a 5 in hand with a 5 placed. That's a valid renege call.
It needs to be ironed out for sure. The least we should do is a +1 venture and go from there. Depending on the severity of the situation the judges should discuss what happens and apply further venture penalties.
A +1 venture per illegal card would even that out nicely.
We did talk about it as an option. I think a simple +1 venture is enough, given how regularly reneges actually occur. But I'm not opposed to upping the ante.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TwdWvKExTE
pretty sure josh forgot that he followed up the teamwork at 25:12 with starjammers 83seconds prior (25:24) to following up with them a second time at 26:47
+1 per card is not enough of a penalty
that just assumes that the aggrieved would venture 1 more. therefore it is still in the interest of the penalized to reneg.
either the reneg is caught, and the person comes out even, or it is not, and they come out ahead. the advantage is still to the penalized party.
the goal is to have a penalty severe enough to discourage intentional renegs, but not an auto-loss for accidental ones
I don't know when all of you became pro overpower players.
However, reneges clearly is a major issue for some reason. Mistakes happen and the more we discuss HEAVY PENALTIES. the less new players are going to want to come out to our events. I am not saying it shouldn't be discussed, but maybe In a more formal face to face setting. We do get together 4+ times a year. In the 4 major tournaments I have attended there has been (from memory). 2 reneges and one game called. I do want a rule that does stop any purposeful cheating, however based off the history I firmly believe to start small In our adjustments of the rules and go from there. Please remember 50% of players that come out to our tournaments are new players most times and could you imagine you come to a tournament and in your first game you make a mistake on nerves and then you auto lose the game. This is bonkers.
Y'all remember overpower is supposed to be fun?
Would it be better with no cash prizes? I thought this would give an opportunity for someone travelling to possibly make some money back.
I will discuss the renege for the championships with Sean and jack. We will post soon all official changes before the tournament.
How about we start to point out some good plays by players on film. Instead of just narrowing on mistakes, like a bunch of negative nancies.
I swear I haven't seen anything fun on this forum in a while. When I'm only laughing and smiling at extremely bad humour from the dousche doctor. We need to re-think what this forum is about.
So to change the subject slightly. What was everyone's most surprising character used?? My call would be garions use of captian Britain. Though maybe not the most effective team (I think). But damn did it have some gumption. Pushed me to the brink.
Let's stay positive out there.
OP CHAMPIONSHIPS. One month away. !!
What deck are you playin?
M
OP GOD
Steve, Good eyes here. However in your first example, I see nothing wrong. On one guys turn he plays DoW. On the next guys turn he attacks DoW with an activator. Next guys turn a power card attack hits a character. Next guys turn he attacks DoW again for a 2nd turn in a row. What am I missing?
However, you DID find another REALLY bad renege in the 2nd link you posted, which if happened to me i would want my opponent to forfeit the game. He did use starjammers to make two followups off a teamwork in a row, both were placed, and the opponent did not even notice. With all these reneges going on in the Canada group, it seems there is some extremely low-level play going on at these tournaments. Its a shame since they are basically the only tournament scene.
Marcel, My most surprising deck to see this tournament was Sean Valentine's. Galactus in reserve. Hulk and Dazzler on the same team. Now i've seen it all.
And as an attempt at brokering some peace with you, I have to say, I DO agree with you on the fact that this message board is super lame now. It used to be SUPER-AWESOME when nccannelora was here posting crazy ass house rules and stuff like that. I do miss him very much. Back then it was a bunch of uneducated players spouting nonsense, but it was FUN to post here. Now its all these super uptight players being all serious and it sucks. That may sound sarcastic, but its not, im 100% serious. I am also glad my bad humor made you laugh. See, I can be nice to you. Under different circumstances, I'm sure we could of been great friends. Probably would of played on the same High-School Football team, you know on the same "Futbol Americano" team, as you guys would say in Canada. Could of really been great "mates". Its not too late Marcel, I extend my hand out to you today in an offering of peace, that we may put aside our differences for the good of this forum and the overpower community. Do whats right. You just gotta do me one favor (favour in canadian?). Please. You cannot wear a hoodie and sunglasses on indoors. This isn't poker. Just dont do it again. Ever. If you can make sure in the Overpower Championship video I see none of that fashion nightmare, Then I DO ACCEPT your apology.
Lets end with one last Platinus Overpower Forum joke, however i do encourage others to participate:
Q: When Marcel loses a hand to his child in poker, what does he say?
A: You CAN bluff me, son!
its great to pickup the faults from a tournament, but there is no need to get hostile.
i want to get into this next year just to try a few ideas out against top tier players and decks.
prizes are just there i think to entice people that do travel, something of a little reward for showing up :)
these recordings are great, it shows people how the play typically unfolds, gives more continuity for future players getting involved with overpower and tournament play. keep it up.
if something turns up which you think is suspect you should be able to pause the game to get an official to oversee the correct procedure to promote the proper rulings
the meta ruling for cards that don't state if it lasts game or battle is unclear for newer players... the one per decks are typically the entire game, the non one per decks are typically only that battle.
getting the fine rules known to players would alleviate key issues.
maybe a pocket rule book this forum can create to have important meta rulings of key cards that run into trouble, so everyone can be on the same page and agree on that.
We need a tournament report from that Captain Britain deck, there are so few KL users that it is almost justifiable to include him in certain lineups with a battlesite.
Quote from: Onslaught on September 20, 2014, 11:19:41 AM
We need a tournament report from that Captain Britain deck, there are so few KL users that it is almost justifiable to include him in certain lineups with a battlesite.
yeah
that and sean's deck were 2 of my favorites
Hi All,
First of all, Marcel apology accepted.
Secondly, I'm in this game to have fun, and enjoy the community. If we are going to be serious about this game going forward, we are going to have to get serious about proper tournament etiquette/protocols. It is okay to say mistakes happen, but when such uncaught mistakes effect the outcome of the game that is very tough. For myself, if I discovered I've done something like that and it is too late to fix, I would resign the game. Some folks are saying "mike didn't catch it", but I had to be reminded of the ruling that if artifacts don't say OPD they are remainder of battle. I don't play Image Inducers usually, since the game has probably degenerated into 50% energy decks, so I frankly don't play them. So I had to remember a Legion ruling.
Which brings me to my final point. The game still has big issues. Some of that can be addressed by a reconsolidation of the mass of odd Legion rulings, game rules, metarules etc into a more coherent structure. We also still have some tendencies in the game towards certain designs. Folks get wrapped up in ratings, yet we still have major inequities in character strength and balance of specials, or even Any Heroes vs. Activators. It's like rating Chess when one side has four rooks vs. four knights.
We -can- fix, enhance, extend this great game, but it is going to take some effort and consensus by the community. If we accept status quo and do nothing, then the game will fade again. We can improve the game, and enhance the experience for everyone. More decks, more strategies, more playable teams, more crass tactics. All good. That is what gets my juices going. For example, BBH made the outstanding suggestion that DoW should be immediately attackable by as many Activators as you have in your hand, that would certainly rebalance AH vs. Battlesite designs.
But until we get serious about improvements to rules, balanced character sets and tournament play, we are still playing a dead game that may run out of steam once we muck out whatever odd combinations are left from the Marvels expansion. Kudos for Garion for dispensing with the AH megadraw deck to simply try something else out rather than stagnate. He essentially gave up #2 in the rankings to make a positive statement about the game. That was gutsy, and I'm proud of him.
I'm retiring from work shortly. I am quite willing to see what Marvel has to say about keeping this game going. [I'm going to propose a print-on-demand model with a legitimate licensing model for images.] I'm also willing to help out with restructuring the rules. I can put some time towards it. Again, the OP community was a outstanding one during the late 90's, and it can be great again. Look forward to seeing everyone in October, and hope we have some serious discussions on moving the game forward.
PtG
Wel said Mike, well said.
I too was surprised that Garion chose to bring a new team into the mix rather his tried and true mega draw team (which i fear by the way lol)
I think one way to diversify characters use is by promoting more themed tournaments. As some of you know I was planning on running comic babe tournament in June which didnt happen. I forgot that in the summer my job becomes a 10 - 12 a day job leaving me very little time to organize it. Once the new event schedule is finalized ill see if i can sneak it in somewhere.
I personally think it would be better with no prizes at all. if we're supposed to be playing for fun
mike hit on some key points that I agree with. if it's 'fun', get rid of the rankings. they encourage people playing purely to win, instead of trying new decks. the other key is dow. I've ranted on this enough, and as unbalanced as it is, it's greatest sin is that it decreases the FUN of the game
battlesites allow players to try out all kinds of wacky combinations. the problem is, dow locks down most of the defense, making these decks not viable. so now there are limited options, either use anyheroes, or use a deck with enough defense that it can hope to get out 4 activators without being devastated. of course, at that point, if you have the defense, you might as well use anys and play it safe.
it's pretty clear that it's been established any hero teams with shattered image can lock up the top spots. let's have a gentleman's agreement that the top players (hey, maybe the rankings aren't so useless after all!) won't use anys. I'm positive the variety of characters will expand, and different strategies will emerge
marcel, I'm not sure it's being overly negative trying to lock down a reneg ruling before the next tournament
I agree that DOW should be nerf a little so that the metagame can change and grow. I like Sean's idea of being able to attack it with all Activators in hand at once.
a little retweaking would be a healthy change, if something is that powerful it eliminates any meaningful counterplay
it still gives card advantage and a lock even with reduced power.
Quote from: breadmaster on September 20, 2014, 05:04:42 PM
I personally think it would be better with no prizes at all. if we're supposed to be playing for fun
You know, we DO have these events - several times a year in fact. Casual meet ups for the purpose of getting together, trying new things and having fun. The casual meet ups are always the least attended. So much for just playing for fun, no?
Don't neuter the tournaments too much. They're TOURNAMENTS. The purpose is to raise the bar, competitively speaking. Knowing all of the obstacles with card imbalance, player trends, etc etc. is par for the course. As a player you have to navigate those challenges.
I'm getting sick of the DoW whiners, personally. 'Oh, he DoW'd me, I lost, it's unfair' - wah wah wah. Yes, it's annoying, I've been on the receiving end like everybody else. Sometimes I lose because of it, and sometimes I come back and win. If someone is relying on DoW to give them the win, then they have a weak deck that won't survive the length of a tournament, that's the bottom line. Rather than bitch about it, try creatively countering it. Oh, you tried that? It didn't work? Try harder.
I've suggested some alternatives to DoW, as have many others. But the bottom line is that it's not the be-all and end all of the game. It's one powerful card in a sea of powerful cards.
We'll have a renege update at the next event, and it will be announced well in advance so no one is surprised by it. It will be fair. I don't expect it to be used too often. I suspect a +1 additional venture per illegal card will be likely. That in itself is a massive gain for the infringed upon player. But the rules will be laid out specifically once we have a chat about it.
Just thought I would put in my 2 cents. Althought i have collected and played , like most of us on the forum, Ohio was my first tournement ever. I definately made a bunch of mistakes, and appreciated that the more experienced players were kind about it and helped me learn. If instead , I had been penalized or forfeited the game because of it, that would have been pretty discouraging. Because of the kindness shown, I am planning on coming to future events to continue to learn. Perhaps some consideration should be given to a players experience. I'm sure, that those of you who have been playing together for many years know which players are likely to try cheating as well as who the less experienced ones are. I truly believe,as OP God pointed out, that teaching new players kindly is the way to get more people into this game we all enjoy.
This thread has really discouraged me from attending future events. I made several mistakes, I apologize for them now and I apologized for them at the time of the mistake. If we are banning player that have NEVER played in a tournament before, this is crazy. Now I understand more and more why this game went dead.
Garion, my apologies, I'm sorry if you felt as I cheated you out of a game.
-Josh
Don't let it get to you. I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. Ultimately most players have fun at these things, even with the hiccups that occur.
There's definitely a social aspect to it, and I personally like to meet up with the players I don't normally get to see in Toronto. That's why I went down the Pennsylvania and Columbus this year. It's not about winning the tournament (though I damn well try!), it's about connecting with the people.
We can't forget that part.
even if people cheated accidental or intentional, remember in the heart of the cards! <3
I have to second that these tournaments are about hanging out with people.
I have had a great time reconnecting with old friends and making new ones.
The last three years of Overpower has been a blast!
While I am new and have not attended any of the tournaments mentioned above, as a former competitive MtG player, I think I may have some insight into how to move this conversation forward.
I think it would help if we were careful about distinguishing between different cases. For play errors, the following are quite different: (i) mistakes due to inexperience with a card or game (e.g., mistakes made by new players); (ii) mistakes made by experienced players (e.g., carelessness in paying attention to the game state or the sequence of actions taken); (iii) intentional cheating. Furthermore, any given play error could fall in any one of these. As an example, consider the case where a player draws their hand and does not discard a 6F teamwork card with Energy and Intellect bonuses even though they have a placed 6F teamwork that offers Strength and Energy bonuses. If the player is new to the game, they may not know that those cards are considered duplicates. An experienced player should know that rule, but may forget if they are tired from playing all day. A player who is intentionally cheating may realize that they are duplicates, but decides to keep both in hopes to generate some advantage against their opponent (e.g., if they have a draw four in their hand). To me it is clear that different penalties should be imposed for these cases (e.g., little or no penalty for the new player, a moderate penalty for the experienced player, and a severe penalty for the intentional cheater). There are probably many more cases that could be created. But my main point is that when talking about and designing penalties, I think it is important that we discuss how we will distinguish between these different categories and how the severity of the penalty will change depending on which case we are in.
I think it would also help if we were careful about distinguishing between different kinds of tournaments. In MtG, tournaments are ranked via the REL system with each tournament being assigned a level and different levels have different penalties for rules infractions. For example, high level tournaments (like the Pro Tour) are very strict about rules and most play errors result in severe penalties (e.g., game loss, Disqualification, etc). In contrast, low level tournaments (like Friday Night Magic) still expect player to follow the rules, but the penalties are much less severe, and in many cases players are allowed to undo actions. Given that there are tournaments with large monetary prize support and tournaments that do not have that kind of prize support, it seems appropriate that the severity of the penalties and the guidelines for how to deal with play errors change depending on the particular tournament.
Finally, it is probably also worth creating a warning system where players are given a warning for their first (or more) play error(s). The warning still comes with a penalty (e.g., +1 venture), but the penalty is reduced. After the player has collected X number of warnings, then the severity of the penalties increases. One could then argue that if enough violations are accumulated in some amount of time (could be one or more tournaments) then very severe penalties (like disqualification) could be imposed.
Regardless of what is done, I think that it is important that we make it clear that the point of creating penalties is not to penalize new or inexperienced players. Instead, these penalties are meant to help protect against intentional cheating and to hold (more experienced) players accountable for following the rules of the game.
a casual meet up with a tournament format would be awesome!
I suggested that myself a couple years ago; it was met with much apathy
Top Seeded Semi Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gApg67F1Kk Josh Alexander vs Phil Keffer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6stTEEheWc Sean Ballantyne vs Marcel Lojet
You have a type on Sean's last name in the post above this one, Jack.
Edit: Wait, What? Its really is Ballantyne?? I always thought it was Valentine. I guess since he's two-faced one side can be a Ballantyne, and one side can be a Valentine...
lol...best line
"fuck you..." "the kids are watching at home Sean!" "..Oh they can go fuck themselves"
Quote from: chuu on October 01, 2014, 11:45:05 PM
lol...best line
"fuck you..." "the kids are watching at home Sean!" "..Oh they can go fuck themselves"
Isn't technology grand? All of our tantrums recorded for posterity! :D
Activate horseshoe • U •
Third Place Match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLMC9kFiQk0 Sean Ballantyne vs Josh Alexander
Finals will be posted on Tuesday. Also a missing match from Round 6 (Garion vs Myles) will be posted shortly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRd34qkvrvA Garion Sutton vs Myles Head
Quote from: Jack on October 05, 2014, 02:27:44 PM
Third Place Match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLMC9kFiQk0 Sean Ballantyne vs Josh Alexander
Finals will be posted on Tuesday. Also a missing match from Round 6 (Garion vs Myles) will be posted shortly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRd34qkvrvA Garion Sutton vs Myles Head
Garion Sutton vs Myles Head isn't working for me.
UPDATE: NEVERMIND....
Finals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxJTpKSE7B4
Marcel Lojet vs Phil Keffer
that was a good game....Marcel's last hand was just too good for Phil's team..
Is this happening again in 2015? August again?
Yes. August 7 and 8.