When I first started playing this game, years and years ago, my friends and I thought that Universe cards (basic and training), counted for damage and venture total.
Seeing them become nigh unusable makes me sad, and i've been thinking of lots of ways to make them usable (including the DTR) and I though, what about simply making them count toward Damage and Venture "again"?
So, if BU and Training cards counted toward damage and Venture, would you use them?
This is a subject that I have also thought about. I actually made an alternate set of rules that were partially designed to make universe cards useful again. When I first started playing it was the same deal. My friend had not understood the part of the rules pertaining to universe cards as they relate to damage and venture. I'm not sure that allowing them to count toward the damage and venture would make them playable under the normal rules though. If you consider that you can choose between a universe card that might make an attack +1-3 or +3-4 for a training versus having two power cards in your hand which might be a 7 and an 8, I think I'd rather have the two power cards in my hand as the benefits are greater. Not to mention you have to either place the universe card or hope you get the right power card/universe combination to use them. This could be alleviated in a deck that focuses on only one or two stats though.
This is also how I played until only a year or two ago.
I really don't understand why they don't count. If you hit someone with a tree, it's going to hurt more.
There are cards and aspects that allow the BUs to count for damage and venture, so allowing them as a default kind of makes those cards redundant.
I play BUs and Training cards a recyclable, meaning they are discarded into the power pack after use. That gives you a hell of an endgame advantage when it comes to power pack, while keeping use for the specials and aspects that let you do something with the BUs.
Also, IF a BU counts to damage and venture via special etc - I play so that it's a 'spectrum' hit as opposed to an 'any power' hit as officially ruled. That way, a BU card combined with a multipower card is a double icon hit.
But around here it seems the use of BUs, training, doubleshots etc. is somewhat controversial. :P
-BBH
Quote from: Kal-el on February 16, 2011, 01:08:16 PM
I really don't understand why they don't count. If you hit someone with a tree, it's going to hurt more.
My thoughts exactly! Such a shame they don't count for damage. My group of friends uses them nonetheless as we enjoy the visual of smashing a tree on your opponent or blocking an attack with a bus. :D
I really like BBH's suggestion of making them recyclable. Its definitely something I might discuss with my friends to incorporate them into our gameplay.
I like the idea of making cards more usable. The idea I had in my custom rules was that you can't use a power card by itself to attack. I suppose it would be possible to include this concept in the normal rules, but I think it would be too hard to execute because of the limited number of cards in each hand.
Quote from: Palatinus on February 17, 2011, 08:27:39 AM
I like the idea of making cards more usable. The idea I had in my custom rules was that you can't use a power card by itself to attack. I suppose it would be possible to include this concept in the normal rules, but I think it would be too hard to execute because of the limited number of cards in each hand.
Power Cards are the bread and butter of any deck, limiting them would make many game interesting, to say the least, but ultimate I think it would hurt the game.
Basic Universe cards saw a lot of use in the early days of OP, simply by virtue of needing to fill out a deck! Also, before battlesites, a +3 (or even a +2) to an attack made it extremely hard to block.
As I've said, I find that recycling them is the best solution. It doesn't make them too strong, but it does increase their usefulness, especially for those teams that can boost them. Mojoworld's aspect makes them really handy, especially knowing that I'll get them back again.
-BBH
Recycling is actually a great idea. I hadn't considered that. The end-game benefit may be enough to truly justify their use. I think I'll start playtesting this. My group is usually pretty open to playtesting, as long as we're trying one flux at a time. You know, controlling the variables all sciencey and stuff ;D
Quote from: ncannelora on February 17, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
Recycling is actually a great idea. I hadn't considered that. The end-game benefit may be enough to truly justify their use. I think I'll start playtesting this. My group is usually pretty open to playtesting, as long as we're trying one flux at a time. You know, controlling the variables all sciencey and stuff ;D
We play so that Basic Universe, Training and Tactic: doubleshots are recyclable. Doubleshots also defend anyone on the team, not just the character playing it.
That makes things a lot more versatile.
It's a balanced system. One that doesn't require a player to use any of them in a deck, but it makes them far more usable for players who want to.
-BBH
I came up with the idea a while back to allow universe cards to be placed to a location card just like they could be placed to a character. The only difference is you could place up to 4 cards as long as they're not duplicates. The Homebase would allow the placement of tactic and training cards, up to 4 total. (Perhaps only the battlesite should be allowed to place up to four of any combination of the 3, trainning, universe or tactic.) If you place a universe/ tactic card to a homebase or battlesite you get to draw a card to replace it and discard any duplicates to cards already in your hand. They basically function like an event that's played pre-battle. Any character can use a card placed to a location as a part of an attack or defense and the placed cards can be affected by specials that would force discards just like if they were placed to characters.
Besides addressing the card advantage issue I like tying the universe cards to the 'environment' represented by the location card. Comic story telling I suppose. 8)
its kinda hard to fight with a tree or bus holding you down :)
how about make placing universe/tactic cards to a location and never to a character?
"I really don't understand why they don't count. If you hit someone with a tree, it's going to hurt more." - Kal-el ;D(kefka laugh)
Recyclable. Best idea so far for BU, Training and DShots IMO.
Which gives me another idea for Ultimate Evil...
Quote from: Nostalgic on February 21, 2011, 05:45:54 PM
I came up with the idea a while back to allow universe cards to be placed to a location card just like they could be placed to a character. The only difference is you could place up to 4 cards as long as they're not duplicates. The Homebase would allow the placement of tactic and training cards, up to 4 total. (Perhaps only the battlesite should be allowed to place up to four of any combination of the 3, trainning, universe or tactic.) If you place a universe/ tactic card to a homebase or battlesite you get to draw a card to replace it and discard any duplicates to cards already in your hand. They basically function like an event that's played pre-battle. Any character can use a card placed to a location as a part of an attack or defense and the placed cards can be affected by specials that would force discards just like if they were placed to characters.
Besides addressing the card advantage issue I like tying the universe cards to the 'environment' represented by the location card. Comic story telling I suppose. 8)
I don't know how I missed this, but I really like it! I really, REALLY like the idea of placing Universe cards to the Homebase. It seems to pay homage to that other game that was a developmental predecessor ("Power to the Players" or something...?)
The problem with making things more powerful is that it eventually gets silly. It's the old "weapon evolution" argument. First there were fists, then someone goes and gets a rock, then someone gets a pole, someone sharpens the pole, then guns etc. The idea being that you end up with weapons whose power changes combat. If universe cards added to venture and damage everything would be tough to block. Every other attack would be a 9, 10, or 11 and everything would die in two hits. I like the idea of you getting to draw a card when using a basic universe card, but only once per battle. This seems like a great compromise to me. They become useful, but they don't make the game stupid.
Jazzing up the Power Pack battles is why I like recycling the BU's. Drawing to replace is cool, and I agree would make them better without making them broken, but my preference would be to have them for the late game, when it's a stalemate and no one can seem to make a successful attack. It's an either/or call I think. Both would be good.
I don't think they should add to damage and venture unless another card grants them that ability. Or maybe an inherent ability (scratches beard)... anyone ever play Betsy Braddock? Maybe she's good...
Quote from: thetrooper27 on December 14, 2012, 12:37:06 AM
Jazzing up the Power Pack battles is why I like recycling the BU's. Drawing to replace is cool, and I agree would make them better without making them broken, but my preference would be to have them for the late game, when it's a stalemate and no one can seem to make a successful attack. It's an either/or call I think. Both would be good.
I don't think they should add to damage and venture unless another card grants them that ability. Or maybe an inherent ability (scratches beard)... anyone ever play Betsy Braddock? Maybe she's good...
You make a good point about other cards giving Universe cards this ability (either through I.A.s or other Specials, or Aspect), but then you also have to include them in your deck in the first place and right now...
But like you said, being able to save them for late in the game is the primary goal, I think... or at least that's my goal... that and to be able to use Charge Object again ;D