Palatinus' OverPower Forum

I've designed another theme character - Red Hulk, who gains his power by absorbing heat, energy and radiation to grow stronger (unlike Hulk, whose hulkyness is based on how angry he gets).


Notes:
1. Inherent Ability changed to "May not be Spectrum K.O.'d with Energy attacks."
2. AR is changed from 4S to 5S.

Let me know what everyone thinks - thanks in advance!

very cool
im suprised you didnt give an absorb radiation (like avoid one attack with an energy icon)

So glad to see him done as a stand alone, without any "may play Hulk" connection, since Ross and Banner are totally different people.  The only thing they share is the look.  Great picture for "Savage Transformation"!

I think Steve is onto something: maybe an AY like Thor or bishops ( absorb energy- avoid energy attack. Red gains 8 energy rating FROB?

Thanks guys -

I'm thinking trigger happy May need to be 5S instead of 4...

Also card code PS should be DJ...

@steve/AO the original mockup for RH had an AY called absorb radiation, avoid 1 energy and energy to 8-- it's crazy that we're on the exact same wavelength!  the AY got dropped for the hits to KO =30 card...It's his secret 7th card, for sure...

@justa - thanks for noticing. I will be sure to do the same for Betty (Red She Hulk), although I don't think she makes it into the current set...'

What do you guys think about the character, mechanically?  The idea is to pull as many hits as possible onto RH (particularly energy hits, since they don't SKO him) to make his other cards stronger.  The reason why I dropped the AY is because if I'm playing this character, I don't think I want to avoid energy attacks - also, since they don't count for SKO anyway, people may not even use them against RH....let's continue to think this through, though - I like where this is heading

The AR is a miniature version of the wolverine/hulk AS - do we like this mechanic?  I may use it again for another hero..

i like the synergy between all the cards but i think he might be a little too "strong" (pun intended) for the general OP population.  He's very self reliant for all his tricks.

Quote from: chuu on December 16, 2014, 08:26:14 AM
i like the synergy between all the cards but i think he might be a little too "strong" (pun intended) for the general OP population.  He's very self reliant for all his tricks.

In terms of a counter, I think if you just burn RH down fast, before the game gets rolling, he's not going to be able to effectively stop you.  He's got 2 cards that are going to disrupt your plans to attack his teammates, but if you focus your attacks on him, then you take those 2 cards off the table - he's also got the MN which you're in control of, as the opponent, and his AR and FO are pretty tame in the first or second battle.  No avoid, no negate, no confusion, I think you could really do a number on him..

With that being said, some possible Nerfs that I've thought of:
- Leave his AR at 4 or even reduce it to 3 (I've already changed it to a 5 in my head, and I think 5 is the right number.  the AS special is a 9 or 10, and the AS hulk-version is 8+Perm...an AR is 6 or 7 [grr...i know about the level 4 AR's but I think they're awful] so the AR hulk-version is 5+Perm...)
- Change the DJ to be 1 Energy attack (I wouldn't want to do this, because I think it makes the draw thing mandatory instead of optional, and takes the decision-making and downside-determination away from the card)
- Change the AC to be 1 Energy attack (Again...this card has a downside when you're NOT using it to build hulk, but you're using it to actually defend your teammate...if it only works on Energy cards, it's stronger because energy cards (effectively..) don't hurt RH)
- Nerf the MN down to 11 or 12 (does that even make a difference?)
- Change the inherent (*cringe* - maybe change 'Energy cards' to 'Energy power cards'?  Before you jump all over that and go 'yes yes yes!' let's just think about how easy that is to play around - I have decks built that don't even have Energy power cards...Another alternative is to give him an inherent that he costs 24 points for tournament deckbuilding or some other kind of negative effect...there's a S.M.A.S.H. location in the works that would have RH in it, so I'd hate to gimp him only in outside decks...)

Ideas are welcome!

Quote from: teesaw on December 18, 2014, 11:52:30 AM
In terms of a counter, I think if you just burn RH down fast, before the game gets rolling, he's not going to be able to effectively stop you.  He's got 2 cards that are going to disrupt your plans to attack his teammates, but if you focus your attacks on him, then you take those 2 cards off the table - he's also got the MN which you're in control of, as the opponent, and his AR and FO are pretty tame in the first or second battle.  No avoid, no negate, no confusion, I think you could really do a number on him..

How long he lasts will depend on the luck of the cards, as usual.  Going after him first builds him up early, so that the FO & MN might be able to be played as soon as they come up.  If both come up early, only 1 gets placed, the other gets lost (barring other tricks in the deck).  If you team him with other like-minded characters (he protects them, they help him out however they can), he may last longer allowing you some degree of being able to pick & choose the hits that land depending on the situation of the moment.

Going to 5 on the AR sounds reasonable.  It may seem a bit much, but he needs the PR hits to get it there, and its the only attack special he's got besides Power cards.
Leave DJ as is.  It makes sense.
I could go either way on the AC.  (See IA below.)
All the MNs I've seen are 12s like Grifter, except for a 15 for Thunderbolts.  It probably wouldn't matter.
IA - by "Energy cards", did you intend only Energy Power cards & Specials that contain no icon other than Energy?  The Energy Ally, Doubleshot, MutiPower Power cards & Specials, and Teamwork cards still effect him.  Going to "Energy icons" would be an anti-nerf, but maybe he's worth it.

Feedback noted - thanks as always

Quote from: justa on December 18, 2014, 01:21:44 PM
IA - by "Energy cards", did you intend only Energy Power cards & Specials that contain no icon other than Energy?  The Energy Ally, Doubleshot, MutiPower Power cards & Specials, and Teamwork cards still effect him.  Going to "Energy icons" would be an anti-nerf, but maybe he's worth it.

I think the language should be changed to "Energy Attacks".  I beleive there are three "tiers" of card to avoid.  The first is "Energy Power Cards", which is self-explanatory, the third is "Cards containing an energy icon" which is also self-explanatory - I think "energy attacks" is the middle ground.  That is to say, a Fighting TW card that is 6F + teammate 2E should count toward SKO (Fighting Attack), a 3-stat multi-power special (i.e. Iron Man's) would NOT count for spectrum K.O. if there is a Strength and Fighting power card hit already on hulk.   

There may be a 2-b level which is "Energy cards" which are 1-stat energy cards of any type, but that seems overly restrictive and complicated for little benefit. 

OK.  I can't think of how to word it any better, but with the explanation, it all makes sense now.