Palatinus' OverPower Forum

After the mundane S.H.I.E.L.D. earlier this week, I thought we needed to see something exciting.  I present for your consideration, the Living Weapon: Iron Fist!


Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas!  Looking forward to seeing some feedback on this  card and its specials.

Extra special thanks to justa for inspiring this card when I created him as a H4H clone...

Quote from: justa on December 11, 2014, 02:06:30 PM
Iron Fist:  I like the card, but I think he's a strong enough character for his own specials. 

i liked S.H.I.E.L.D set you did

ID to HR to JW to power card :)

I like that last special! 

Quote from: chuu on December 24, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
I like that last special!

is it power cards or specials too (making his HR do 11)?

Quote from: steve2275 on December 24, 2014, 09:33:02 AM

Quote from: chuu on December 24, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
I like that last special!

is it power cards or specials too (making his HR do 11)?

Thanks for the feedback - as written, the card affects all attacks and defense, including specials.

Quote from: teesaw on December 24, 2014, 11:18:34 AM

Quote from: steve2275 on December 24, 2014, 09:33:02 AM

Quote from: chuu on December 24, 2014, 09:30:24 AM
I like that last special!

is it power cards or specials too (making his HR do 11)?

Thanks for the feedback - as written, the card affects all attacks and defense, including specials.

sweet
better team him with the likes of daredevil (KW also can apply via hero for hire special) and silver sable

I know we talked about this already, teesaw, but I just want to point out to the rest of the community:

That H4H special is absolutely awesome, and is (IMHO) just excellent design in general.

It takes two basic components of the game, in this case follow-up attacks and the fact you need a team of characters, and joins them together in a way that really hasn't been done/developed yet in the game.

Of course, the power level is really hard to judge. It's distinctly possible that letting the reserve (which is implied by not excluding the reserve) follow-up or even just that Quicksilver/Nightcrawler playing several specials and then letting their team beat the snot out of the opposition on the follow-ups is far too strong. But I wouldn't rush to that judgment without playing the card in the most degenerate situations possible, to see how bad it can be. The point is, I'm a big fan.

LeiKung is the other card with a pretty unique mechanic here. I'm less excited about it, but I also know that it is based on some design space that's seen exploration (the "until this special is attacked" and "teammates may not defend" portions, specifically). Still, it's a powerful bonus on a 5-8 E-F character, and seems like it could be strong enough to put your opponent on their back heel quickly (as I understand the wording, you're basically going to get one "free" swing with the bonus before your opponent assuredly attacks Leikung in ideal situations).

Also, it seems like the community is not as concerned with a 5E having the AE Special, so I was probably overly concerned about that. But especially after thinking about Leikung and about The Witchblade, I'm still a little concerned that AE will be a 9+ every time.

Overall though, I'm a big fan! I like the grid (as I said, maybe he should be 4E to keep the AE special, but I am probably wrong).

1 avoid or negate takes care of AE
so no bigee

everyone can abuse AE with a witchblade, some characters can boost their AE higher than a 9 without a witchblade.

some can get into the 10, 11, and 12 range

all in all this is great, i can't really suggest any changes

Thanks for the feedback-

I think the AE with a 5 in the secondary power type is within the acceptable range for AE's.  There are plenty of AE's on par with this, I believe.

@dr sleepless - That's a great catch about the reserve - it should say "frontline teammate". That will be tuned in the next round of edits.

The image on immortal fist needs to be moved in the frame, too.

Quote from: Tussin on December 24, 2014, 02:24:49 PM
everyone can abuse AE with a witchblade, some characters can boost their AE higher than a 9 without a witchblade.

Such as this Iron Fist, if you play Fiery Punches first.

Keep up the good work, teesaw. This is the kind of thing OverPower should have always been doing.

So if I'm reading it right, if Hero For Hire hits, the team can do chain attacks with/for each other ROB?  You could set up some wicked combos with a good team, a little planning & placing, and the luck of the card draw, as always.  Awesome effect!
Good take on the Fist.  Different power distribution from anything I've seen, but it seems just as appropriate.  It all depends on your view of the character.  No suggestions here, just good cards.
Great work.

Dog [perhaps inadvertently] brings up a good point about Iron fist having a potential for a double-pump with Lei Kung + Fiery Punches...does anyone think that the ID should be a non-OPD DG?  Instead of "acts as a level 1 fighting attack, may make 1 attack at +2 or 2 attacks at +1" it would read "acts as a level 2 fighting attack, may make 2 additional attacks"...Let me know your thoughts.

Otherwise, I think the feedback on Iron Fist has been overwhelmingly positive.  I can't tell if you're all in the Christmas spirit, or if I really nailed it with this one.  Please cast your vote on whether the ID should be a DG - I'll be posting another new character shortly, that I think you'll enjoy.

fine as is i think
but maybe have
"may play heroes for hire iron fist special card"

My Iron Fist is a little bit different, though he still definitely has 8F.  As such, he won't be in my Core Set (there are already three 8F characters in Cap, Taskmaster, and Wolverine).

• Fiery Punches - I like the ID and I don't think enough characters got one.  That being said, they should pretty much always be off-color, as a 1F attack in a Fighting deck isn't very practical.
• The Living Weapon - Not bad.  Very fitting.  Although again, I would make it off-color.
• The Mark of Shou-Lao - Great name for a card, but I'm really not fond of the AE Specials as-written.
• Hero for Hire - That is a fantastic idea.  I may just have to appropriate it for OP3.  One critique though: I would either make it OPD, or restrict it to just Iron Fist himself.
• The Immortal Fist - Perfectly fitting.
• Lei Kung the Thunderer - An interesting take on the idea of supporting characters.  I would love to see more of this kind of thing.

Very powerful offensively speaking, but it seems weird to me he's so lacking in defense.  A martial artist as powerful and skilled as Rand should be dodging things left and right.

@OP3 - thanks for the awesome feedback!

Quote from: OP3 on January 02, 2015, 08:20:14 AM

• Fiery Punches - I like the ID and I don't think enough characters got one.  That being said, they should pretty much always be off-color, as a 1F attack in a Fighting deck isn't very practical.

I went back and looked at what was released - I think the split was about 50/50 (I've included DG in my analysis, since there are only 2 ID in the original sets).  With that in mind, however, I think this card and the JW might be better off as Energy cards. 

Quote from: OP3 on January 02, 2015, 08:20:14 AM

• The Living Weapon - Not bad.  Very fitting.  Although again, I would make it off-color.

As noted above, maybe these both change to Energy cards - I'm not sure how I feel about 4 off-color specials, but definitely a good point worth considering.

Quote from: OP3 on January 02, 2015, 08:20:14 AM

• The Mark of Shou-Lao - Great name for a card, but I'm really not fond of the AE Specials as-written.

I personally like an AE - especially one you can pump to 11 with max contribution...it accomplishes what I think Doubleshots were intended to do, but has more flexibility.  Not to mention, from a 'comics realism' standpoint it's a punch (F) with magical fire (E) attached ontop of it, which is (in my opinion) the essence of iron fist.

Quote from: OP3 on January 02, 2015, 08:20:14 AM

• Hero for Hire - That is a fantastic idea.  I may just have to appropriate it for OP3.  One critique though: I would either make it OPD, or restrict it to just Iron Fist himself.

This was something I went back and forth on.  I compared this to a bunch of other cards with 6-attacks that aren't OPD, most notably the NT (If successful, Opponent must discard from Hand until both players have an equal number of cards in Hand. Opponent's choice.) - I also tried this as an OPD with a different card in place of the HR and I struggled to make it "feel" right. 

I also ran the scenario in my head of what this card looks like being abused (on a team with Nightcrawler, of course)...I think it's tough to land this card early in a battle, which is what you'd need to do to really abuse it.  If we made it OPD, I think the effect would need to be FROG, which would be too difficult to deal with, in my opinion.

Quote from: OP3 on January 02, 2015, 08:20:14 AM
Very powerful offensively speaking, but it seems weird to me he's so lacking in defense.  A martial artist as powerful and skilled as Rand should be dodging things left and right.

I don't disagree.  When I built this card, I wanted to build something that was very high offense - most of the cards in the set have an avoid, a negate, or both, so I've tried to keep those out.  If I had to give IF a 7th card (or re-arrange the cards he has) I did come up with a mechanic that was basically an amped up CC - acts as a X power card, may be used to attack or defend Iron Fist or Teammate.  The twist is that it's "+X when used for defense"..so it's also an MH, a numerical block of 9 or less.  The words were clunky when I tried to write it up.  I thought about maybe putting it is IF's IA (I did something similar with the hood, where I wanted him to be able to use the mechanic, but I didn't want it showing up in a battlesite deck), but it didn't feel right.  I don't disagree that IF is defenseless, but I'm not sure if maybe that's not his weakness?  Maybe one of his other specials needs to hit the floor - I'm not sure. 

Definitely worth considering...