i was discussing this earlier with bbh, and i thought, 'screw it'
he's the most recognizable comic character, and one of the most powerful, so go all out on the guy
superman
energy: 8
fighting: 4
strength: 8
intellect: 6
inherent: superman may not be spectrum or cumulative ko'd by cards with a fighting icon
the inherent represents that you can out-power him (doomsday), out-think him (luthor) or hit him with magic, but no matter how skilled bullseye is, he ain't doin squat to the big guy
so, he's triple grid, with a great inherent. 26 points is costly though, so lets give him some beefy specials!
big blue: 4m with follow
man of steel: superman or teammate may avoid 1 attack (yeah, it's powerful, but so is superman, and it's in character...**** you!)
inspiration: team +2 to all actions for remainder of battle
man of tomorrow: 9f/s
last son of krypton: acts as a level 8 strength power card, may be used to attack or defend
is he really worthy of a 6I?
well, both of his parents were super-geniuses back on Krypton...
Also, in our DC3 edition, we gave Superman a 7A CC and a teammate avoid attack (unstipulated, just like Alpha Flight's). It helped him tremendously ;)
a f dont have a cc card
not officially any way ;D
Quote from: ncannelora on April 17, 2012, 02:15:08 AM
well, both of his parents were super-geniuses back on Krypton...
That was the first thing I thought of when I read is he worthy of the 6I!
I think its a pretty good layout for the man - I mean c'mon its Superman he should be overblown and I especially like having no inherent that lessens his cost (i.e. counts as 20 points for deckbuilding, etc) - I think with a guy like Sups you have to expect a brute, but you also need to be willing to pay for it!
If this one was real, I would run him.....A LOT 8)
im not sure i like this superman having an inherent since he has 2 8's
Quote from: steve2275 on April 17, 2012, 06:58:54 AM
im not sure i like this superman having an inherent since he has 2 8's
I can understand that thought, but Superman would be a pain to kill. So adding an inherent that makes sense like breadmaster did is a pretty neat idea. It doesnt make him impossible to kill - just a little tougher. I mean how many times have we seen the comics where Doomsday beats him within an inch of his life, or Luthor stabs/shoots him with Kryptonite, or he's infected with (insert color) kryptonite and 'may never' recover. Superman has always been that iconic hero that always comes back - and pretty much always on his own.
I'd be willing to wager that I'm the biggest Superman fan here, and even I think those are a little over the top. I think 7-3-8-5 might be more appropriate. His heat vision is good, but it's no power cosmic (of course, the power cosmic didn't get an 8 either, but that's a different discussion).
If you're really trying to represent Superman, I would add another inherent. I like the one you have, but I think he needs a 'negative' one as well. I'm thinking:
QuoteSuperman may only use strength power cards level 6 through 8 to attack opponents with a 7 or 8 strength stat.
Phasing might need some work, as I only want the restriction to apply to offense. Defense with high strength cards would be fair game. I like this because he may be super strong, but Superman's a good guy, so he's not going to punch Aunt May.
what Kal-el said
Quote from: Kal-el on April 17, 2012, 09:37:24 AM
I'd be willing to wager that I'm the biggest Superman fan here, and even I think those are a little over the top. I think 7-3-8-5 might be more appropriate. His heat vision is good, but it's no power cosmic (of course, the power cosmic didn't get an 8 either, but that's a different discussion).
If you're really trying to represent Superman, I would add another inherent. I like the one you have, but I think he needs a 'negative' one as well. I'm thinking:
QuoteSuperman may only use strength power cards level 6 through 8 to attack opponents with a 7 or 8 strength stat.
Phasing might need some work, as I only want the restriction to apply to offense. Defense with high strength cards would be fair game. I like this because he may be super strong, but Superman's a good guy, so he's not going to punch Aunt May.
I could see dropping an 8 since there aren't dual 8 stat characters in the game. And I do like the inherent, especially when confrontations with Doomsday, Metallo, etc come to mind. But I like breadmasters inherent as well - I'd almost consider using both, especially if an 8 is dropped.
Now - biggest superman fan (you probably are "kal-el" I mean the name says it all)....I dunno :P I am a huge SM fan. I actually just went to the Superman Musuem not to long ago - pretty sweet seeing all of the old/orignal stuff.
Quote from: Jesse on April 17, 2012, 09:44:47 AM
I could see dropping an 8 since there aren't dual 8 stat characters in the game. And I do like the inherent, especially when confrontations with Doomsday, Metallo, etc come to mind. But I like breadmasters inherent as well - I'd almost consider using both, especially if an 8 is dropped.
Now - biggest superman fan (you probably are "kal-el" I mean the name says it all)....I dunno :P I am a huge SM fan. I actually just went to the Superman Musuem not to long ago - pretty sweet seeing all of the old/orignal stuff.
I agree, use both Inherents, as I really liked the fighting one too.
I'm very jealous of your trip to the Museum. I'm assuming you went to the one in Metropolis? I've always wanted to go there, but it's such a long boring drive from Wisconsin. Someday I'll make it. Maybe I could combine it with a trip to St. Louis to catch a hockey game.
Quote from: Kal-el on April 17, 2012, 12:24:53 PM
I'm very jealous of your trip to the Museum. I'm assuming you went to the one in Metropolis? I've always wanted to go there, but it's such a long boring drive from Wisconsin. Someday I'll make it. Maybe I could combine it with a trip to St. Louis to catch a hockey game.
Yeah, the one in Metropolis. It is in a building that is probably too small for its quantity, but the guy was saying he has talks going about a larger site, so by the time you get there it could be even better. 8)
Quote from: steve2275 on April 17, 2012, 03:15:33 AM
a f dont have a cc card
not officially any way ;D
Quote from: ncannelora on April 17, 2012, 02:15:08 AM
well, both of his parents were super-geniuses back on Krypton...
Also, in our DC3 edition, we gave Superman a 7A CC and a teammate avoid attack (unstipulated, just like Alpha Flight's). It helped him tremendously ;)
Quote from: Kal-el on April 17, 2012, 09:37:24 AM
I'd be willing to wager that I'm the biggest Superman fan here, and even I think those are a little over the top. I think 7-3-8-5 might be more appropriate. His heat vision is good, but it's no power cosmic (of course, the power cosmic didn't get an 8 either, but that's a different discussion).
bbh said the same thing. my counter was:
if iceman gets a 7e for ice, torch gets a 7e for heat, and quicksilver gets a 7e for speed, then superman deserves an 8e. he blows all 3 out of the water in all categories
Quote from: breadmaster on April 17, 2012, 05:03:49 PM
Quote from: Kal-el on April 17, 2012, 09:37:24 AM
I'd be willing to wager that I'm the biggest Superman fan here, and even I think those are a little over the top. I think 7-3-8-5 might be more appropriate. His heat vision is good, but it's no power cosmic (of course, the power cosmic didn't get an 8 either, but that's a different discussion).
bbh said the same thing. my counter was:
if iceman gets a 7e for ice, torch gets a 7e for heat, and quicksilver gets a 7e for speed, then superman deserves an 8e. he blows all 3 out of the water in all categories
Not so with Iceman's 7E. look it up, he's actually an "omega level" mutant. it goes way beyond "making ice"
I must agree on the 7E for Supes, though I am strongly for an 8S. AS far as the Iceman thing goes, Bobby doesn't make/manipulate ice, he IS ice. I believe it was White Queen who told him he wasn't using his full potential, because if he really unleashed his full potential, he would be nigh-immortal. Not because he absorbed energy from a yellow sun, but because the only reason he shows signs of mortality is because he THINKS he should. As seen in AoA, he can breakdown his molecules and those around him to effectively teleport anywhere he wants to travel in a water-vapor form. If shattered in his ice-form, he can pull himself back together, ala T-1000, Hydro-man, or Sandman. He "creates" ice all around him simply by freezing the water in the surrounding air, and it's not even a strain to do so. I would hardly put Superman's heat vision/x-ray vision/superspeed on the same level. As far as him rating a higher then 4I, just cause your parents are brilliant scientists, doesn't automatically make you one. He wasn't raised by his scientific parents, he was raised by a couple of poor farmers in Kansas. Yes, genetically speaking, he is probablly potentially far superiour intellectually, but the actuality of it, is he's got no better real intelligence then a middle American high school graduate. That's not calling him stupid, but I certainly would not put his intellect within 2 points of Bruce Wayne's (who should also have been an 8I). The inherents are great, both of them. The specials are killer and completely worthy of him. I would stat him at 7-3-8-4 though (maybe 7-3-8-5.)
'hes got no better real intelligence then a middle American high school graduate'
please
I stand corrected by this obviously, well thought argument.
so you're not going to back off that he's more intelligent than your average american high school graduate?
do i have to post examples of scans disproving it?
or how bout i direct you to all star superman, where he performs numerous scientific feats (you know, since you reference an alternate reality with iceman)
or, you could just retract that statement, and not be a dick about it
Examples would be nice, since I posted my opinion with examples of why I have the opinions I posted. Don't think I was being a dick about it, since I don't feel that "Please" is a true rebuttal to something you feel so strongly as to call me a dick about. You don't have to take my opinion of Big Blue personally. Having different thoughts and expressing them is called communication, but if I'm a dick for thinking that Superman is hardly worthy of a lvl 6I, then I'm a dick.
'I stand corrected by this obviously, well thought argument.'
that's not the statement of a dick?
either you are grossly overestimating the intelligence of the american high school graduate, or selling supes short. either way, if you're not retracting, i'm not bothering making any further arguments, cause that proves you won't concede a point
I will be glad to concede the point based on some kind of evidence showing me the error of my ways. I'm not saying my statement wasn't dickish, but as a response to the rebuttal of "Please," I didn't feel I had to defend my point of view further. It seemed to me that you simply took offense because you like Superman more then I do. That's great. You are welcome to idolize who you want, but if you aren't willing to defend your beliefs, then you shouldn't make statements that seem to invite further discussion. If you would show me a time, alternate reality or not, where Superman actually had a scientific level of intelligence, I would be glad to retract my statement that he's not deserving of a 6I stat. If you are simply going to continue to berate me for giving just as lame of a response as you did, then yes, I would be glad to end this back and forth. I'm not attacking you personally, for I do not know you. I'm not attacking your chosen hero, simply stating why I feel what I feel. If you are not open to general debate, and are simply looking for people to agree with you all the time about everything you post, then you should find a slightly less public forum.
my idol? i like superman as a character, but he's not in my top 50. why try to use that as an insult?
'please' was in response to a statement that is clearly wrong. ignoring science, the man is an award-winning journalist for one of the top newspapers in the world.
as far as 'debating' you...no thanks. i've seen how you've ended 'debates' that you have failed to back up poorly thought out points (dow topic)
'If you still don't see what I'm getting at, then you don't see what I'm getting at.'
So nothing about defending Superman? Got it.
As far as the DoW thread, I'd explained my position 3 times. If you don't see where I'm coming from, and re-reading my explanation doesn't help, then you just won't see what I was trying to say. Simple fact, nothing more. It wasn't a shot at your or anyone else, simply a statement of fact.
Quote from: breadmaster on April 17, 2012, 06:44:27 PM
...
or how bout i direct you to all star superman, where he performs numerous scientific feats (you know, since you reference an alternate reality with iceman)
...
I'm not too certain how alternate timelines and universes work in DC (or really, other areas of Marvel), but I did want to clarify that in AoA, everyone had the same powers. The only difference is that Magneto trained the X-Men differently (except Rogue and X-Man/Cable, but I could come back to them if prompted). So, while AoA was the
first place we saw a glimpse of Iceman's true potential, it's certainly not the only place he has it.
Along those same lines, then, Superman may only have received a H.S. diploma as his only formal education (that may not even be true, I just don't know), but I'm the first person to chime-in for the defense of the under-educated community (never having obtained any higher level education, myself). I'd say that if this "All Star Superman" is the same Kal-el from normal continuity, but with a different background in upbringing or education, and he showed a 6i, then go for it!
Quote from: ncannelora on April 17, 2012, 07:55:10 PM
Along those same lines, then, Superman may only have received a H.S. diploma as his only formal education (that may not even be true, I just don't know), but I'm the first person to chime-in for the defense of the under-educated community (never having obtained any higher level education, myself). I'd say that if this "All Star Superman" is the same Kal-el from normal continuity, but with a different background in upbringing or education, and he showed a 6i, then go for it!
I agree. I think low end all star superman would get a 5i but I truly agree with the 6i. Just my opinion.
Additional Ncann, I like your layout of the timeline thought process - well put.
My Superman.
E-7
F-3
S-8
I-4
(At 22 points he's expensive, but still reasonable.)
Inherent: May only be KO'd by Dead is Dead. Strength power cards are -2 vs characters with strength 6/5(?) or less.
I like BM's specials. I'd add a x-ray vision that requires opponent to play open handed.
Truth, Justice, and the American Way... (Draw 3) ;)
As for the intellect I think we need to define the terms. I believe someone did this in another thread relating to each energy level a character might have. I don't know what the game designers intended, but here is my take on the first few intervals of intellect.
1- Rhino/ Blob/ Sentinels (high school drop-out, robot following simple prewritten program, or simply stuuuupid.)
2- Venom/ Marauders/ Quicksilver (regular guy/ high school graduate...perhaps lacking intellectual curiosity)
3- Thing/ Deadpool/Serpent Society (unique /uncommon/ special knowledge: flying jets/ college graduate/ intellectually curious person versed in world affairs)
4- Wolverine/ Superman/ ... (more specialized or extensive knowledge through long life/ knowledge of alien tech/ very complex reasoning/ problem solving around whatever the specialty is...)
5- Spiderman/ Cyclops/.... (All of the above plus genius intelligence or even more extensive knowledge in various fields/ perhaps leadership ability and team coordination/inspiration is in there(?))
For comparison most of us would have stats something like this:
E-1 (uuum...yea.)
F-2 (maybe a 3/4 if your part of 'fight club' ;) )
S-3 (probably a 2 for the ladies)
I-2 (or ¾ depending on what mensa says ;))
I would have fleshed out the above intellect levels more but its late and I'm too tired. :P Perhaps later.
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 18, 2012, 01:58:33 AM
F-2 (maybe a 3/4 if your part of 'fight club' ;) )
You just broke rule #1 ;)
Quote from: ncannelora on April 17, 2012, 07:55:10 PM
Along those same lines, then, Superman may only have received a H.S. diploma as his only formal education (that may not even be true, I just don't know), but I'm the first person to chime-in for the defense of the under-educated community (never having obtained any higher level education, myself). I'd say that if this "All Star Superman" is the same Kal-el from normal continuity, but with a different background in upbringing or education, and he showed a 6i, then go for it!
I wholeheartedly agree, I simply have no knowledge of such a Superman. If there are stories of him truly deserving a 6I, awesome. It's just that the Superman I've seen over the years is more prone to simply diverting the explosives instead of disarming them. Hence my opinion.
I'm with you Nostalgic. Stats seem to ring true, in my opinion, with some much better specials then in his current pool.
Personally, I would take his existing cards and re-print them with more useful abilities. Heat vision as a 7E. Defying the Earth's Gravity as a Numerical Avoid, or even a true avoid. Last Son of Krypton is fine. The Man Beyond Tomorrow is fine. Earth's Greatest Hero is fine. Make Man of Steel game lasting instead of battle lasting. Give him a BG and call it Leader of the JLA.
I usually don't like to chime in in forums when people are arguing but I would like to back up my reasoning for Superman to have a decent Intellect stat.
He has an Eidetic Memory. He has been shown to have flawless, total recall of everything he has ever seen, read, or heard.
He is often shown as being fluent in many of Earth's languages.
His memory was so great, that when he created a statue of his parents it was accurate right down to their finger-prints.
He builds Superman Robots.
Just some of my thoughts. If need be I can go digging through my comic box and start quoting pages and issue numbers ;)
not bad jesse
Quote from: Jesse on April 18, 2012, 08:07:11 AM
I usually don't like to chime in in forums when people are arguing but I would like to back up my reasoning for Superman to have a decent Intellect stat.
He has an Eidetic Memory. He has been shown to have flawless, total recall of everything he has ever seen, read, or heard.
He is often shown as being fluent in many of Earth's languages.
His memory was so great, that when he created a statue of his parents it was accurate right down to their finger-prints.
He builds Superman Robots.
Just some of my thoughts. If need be I can go digging through my comic box and start quoting pages and issue numbers ;)
These are actually aspects of the character I was unaware of. I knew of the existence of
Superman Robots, I didn't know he had anything to do with their creation. I didn't know about his linguistic skills, nor his replication of his parents, all of which indicate a much higher intellect then I previously indicated him to have. I would still argue that in combat he doesn't rely on his intellect to the same degree as Batman or Blue Beetle, but he is certainly more intelligent than I gave him credit for. I apologize for my initial statement.
Quote from: Demacus on April 18, 2012, 09:01:57 AM
These are actually aspects of the character I was unaware of. I knew of the existence of
Superman Robots, I didn't know he had anything to do with their creation. I didn't know about his linguistic skills, nor his replication of his parents, all of which indicate a much higher intellect then I previously indicated him to have. I would still argue that in combat he doesn't rely on his intellect to the same degree as Batman or Blue Beetle, but he is certainly more intelligent than I gave him credit for. I apologize for my initial statement.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've read a lot of Superman variations and he does get changed around a lot! I know in one older issue of Action Comics he was smart but there was never a mention of extreme levels of intelligence, however in that one issue his powers had returned (lost them previously in another issue - not the current point ::)) and he said something to Lois along the lines of "my mind and my memory is faster, more precise and my brainpower was somehow boosted as well with the return of my powers" (Someone may be able to quote that better but from memory but Im hoping its pretty clsoe). I just tossed that in because even from issue to issue it changes with any character - especially Sups.
I guess I'll wade in to this.
Pre-Crisis (before 1986), Superman had super-intelligence. You could argue that this Superman could justify a 7 or 8 intellect. Of course, this Superman also had super-ventriloquism, so they weren't exactly skimping on the 'super' powers. I'll ignore this Superman.
New 52 (2011-present) is anyone's guess.
Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.
So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.
Quote from: Jesse on April 18, 2012, 09:21:18 AM
I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've read a lot of Superman variations and he does get changed around a lot! I know in one older issue of Action Comics he was smart but there was never a mention of extreme levels of intelligence, however in that one issue his powers had returned (lost them previously in another issue - not the current point ::)) and he said something to Lois along the lines of "my mind and my memory is faster, more precise and my brainpower was somehow boosted as well with the return of my powers" (Someone may be able to quote that better but from memory but Im hoping its pretty clsoe). I just tossed that in because even from issue to issue it changes with any character - especially Sups.
I don't read any DC comics, but it seems to me Superman could benefit from a few variant character cards.
Quote from: Kal-el on April 18, 2012, 09:35:05 AM
Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.
So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.
Thank you for the brief summery Kal. I really had no idea about his accomplishments, but I do appreciate that even you, with your vast knowledge of the character, have stated that even a 6 would be a stretch. I didn't mean any disrespect with my comment about his education.
Quote from: mattkoz on April 18, 2012, 09:47:09 AM
I don't read any DC comics, but it seems to me Superman could benefit from a few variant character cards.
Yes, Superman could benefit from various varients. Earth-2, Earth-X, Ultraman, The Man Beyond Tomorrow, and Kingdom Come just off the top of my head.
Quote from: Kal-el on April 18, 2012, 09:35:05 AM
I guess I'll wade in to this.
Pre-Crisis (before 1986), Superman had super-intelligence. You could argue that this Superman could justify a 7 or 8 intellect. Of course, this Superman also had super-ventriloquism, so they weren't exactly skimping on the 'super' powers. I'll ignore this Superman.
New 52 (2011-present) is anyone's guess.
Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.
So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.
I wasn't saying 7 or 8. But I would greatly argue he is undoubtedly a 5 or 6. Reasoning 1)The brief list of things I mentioned earlier that express his memory, intellegence and scientific abilities 2) If people are going to say that Spider-Man needs a higher intellect simply because he's smart, you cannot ignore Superman's intelligence just beacuse he is predominately a brute force. 3)Kryptonian knowledge that was downloaded to him - it doesnt matter if it was downloaded to him or he learned it in school like Peter Parker, the fact is it is there. 4) What about the Vanishing Machine? Created by Superman to essentially make the Phantom Zone a Paradise zone.
I would rate his intellect at a 5 or 6. For gameplay continuity I would go with a 5 simply becuase he will have a 7/8 in both energy and strength and wouldn't need the additional high stat. But I would not ignore the intellect and put a cop-out 3/4.
Look at Malebolgia. 7E, 6S, 8I. With the Inherent on the Intellect. If need be place an inherent on Sup's Intellect as well, but I do not believe it should be a lower value just because as Clark Kent he went to an average high school and an average college.
Quote from: mattkoz on April 18, 2012, 09:47:09 AM
I don't read any DC comics, but it seems to me Superman could benefit from a few variant character cards.
This would probably be the
only way to get everyone to agree ;D
Quote from: Kal-el on April 18, 2012, 09:35:05 AM
New 52 (2011-present) is anyone's guess.
Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.
So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.
Good points have been raised, but nobody has addressed the 'definition of terms' I brought up earlier. I mean the languages, sculpting ability, memory mean what as it relates to what a 2, 3, 4, 5 intellect are in overpower? In Superman 2 he tricks Lex Luther and uses a special chamber to shield himself from the red sun rays depowering Gen Zod and company. I'd say this little intellect attack is example of Sup's cunning. Although setting all that up (I mean the tech itself) might require an 8i, supermans ploy might by a 3 or 4 intellect attack. Also I mean there is a difference between 'knowledge of' something and inventing it yourself. I'm sure just about anyone on the enterpirse can use a tricorder(?) but not everyone could take it apart and put it together. In my opinion a 4 intellect is MUCH smarter than your average high school or perhaps even many college grads.
All that said, I wouldn't me upset at a 5i. 8)
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 18, 2012, 10:52:46 AM
[Good points have been raised, but nobody has addressed the 'definition of terms' I brought up earlier. I mean the languages, sculpting ability, memory mean what as it relates to what a 2, 3, 4, 5 intellect are in overpower?
This is true, because depending on the terms he could have an 8 or he could have a 1 (same could be said for anyone else with any other stat).
A lot of it comes down to perception. I know how I feel about Sups based on what I have read, watched, and heard. I also know Kal-el has his feelings based on what he has read, watched and heard and the same for breadmaster and everyone else. I know you could even manage an argument that says Sups should not have a 7E :o. I'd put that entirely on Sups "holding back" how much power he uses in some of the comics and even the JL tv show, because he was afraid of how powerful he could become.
In any sense I feel like the thoughts are good on both sides so we'll just have to wait for the customs to start flying in soon from everybody, lol. 8)
I just wanted to thank those of you who have opinions and are actually bringing them to the table to support why you feel what you feel. I will admit, I spoke out of ignorance, but being ignorant of my ignorance, spoke folly of Superman. Thanks to those of you who recognized ignorance and saw the opportunity to educate instead of berate. As far as game balance, I think his printed stats are in the ballpark, but his lack of good specials are why people pass him up for their team(s). 7-3-8-5 is closer then his printed grid, but making him cost more does not make him more appealing, if his pool of tricks are still horribly sub-par. Maybe we should focus on Specials.
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 18, 2012, 10:52:46 AM
nobody has addressed the 'definition of terms' I brought up earlier. I mean the languages, sculpting ability, memory mean what as it relates to what a 2, 3, 4, 5 intellect are in overpower?
this is a good point. i'd argue that intellect in any field gets you points in overpower, regardless of how 'useful' it is in combat
reyes gets a 6i for medical knowledge
daredevil gets a 6i for law
samson 6i for psychiatry
mojo and aquaman 6i for...running a network and talking to fish? (i kid, i kid)
even if we ignore all of his scientific knowledge, he is an investigative reporter. that by itself should prove at the very least as useful in the wide open field of overpower (where people are trying to complete missions, in addition to pounding the stuffing out of each other ;))
i think clark should have at least a 5 i
but what i wanna know is why does thor have 4i? :P
Quote from: steve2275 on April 19, 2012, 02:26:18 AM
but what i wanna know is why does thor have 4i? :P
Maybe the 4 represents how smart the Asgardians are when they're not drinking........ :o
X-Ray Vision - Sort through opponents draw pile. Choose any 1 card and remove it from the game. Reshuffle draw pile.
Defender of Metropolis - Superman or teammate may avoid any numerical attack.
Rays Of The Yellow Sun - Remove all hits from Superman's Permanent Record and Current Battle, and switch places with the Reserve.
I know they aren't unique, but I'd say they would be a nice help to Big Blue.
Quote from: Demacus on April 19, 2012, 08:30:26 PM
X-Ray Vision - Sort through opponents draw pile. Choose any 1 card and remove it from the game. Reshuffle draw pile.
Defender of Metropolis - Superman or teammate may avoid any numerical attack.
Rays Of The Yellow Sun - Remove all hits from Superman's Permanent Record and Current Battle, and switch places with the Reserve.
I know they aren't unique, but I'd say they would be a nice help to Big Blue.
cool man cool