Bios you have some of the best homemades on the web both in game mechanics and quality/sharpness period.
I know most of this stuff is subjective, but I wondered do you have a standardized rating system for giving your version of the characters the stats that you do or is it just, "Marvel botched this character so I'll make them stronger/smarter,etc." ? I remember someone talking about the stystem used for energy ratings, and I tried a psudo-system for intellect in the long superman discussion. (Can't find either of those topics at the moment to post the links.) If you do use a system what is it?
You made some good points about the intellect of certain characters in the link below.
http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=674.msg7540#msg7540
Also specifically I noticed that you had a version of Luke Cage that had strength 6 with some inherent abilites and another that was strength 7 with no inherent ability. What was the thought behind the change? I don't know much about the character. Did he go up against someone in the comics that changed your mind?
Thanks for the compliments, I really appreciate it. 8)
I don't use standardized ratings in general, with a few exceptions. I adopted the level 5 strength as peak human level , for example.
Most times I just give the stats comparing a character with another (is he smarter, or stronger than other characters with similar powers?). For example, comparing Flash and Quicksilver, my opinion is that Flash should be the level 7 and Quick the level 6. I usually use comics background to base my opinions, like I did in that intellect topic.
I also developed a statistics system and some rules to distribute special cards. For example, only characters with 19 points or over (sum grid) can have "1-9 team avoid". If the character is level 8, the minimum sum grid is 21.
Characters with "AO negate" are also distributed according to statistics, minimum sum grid, and how the grid can match with other characters. For example, Holocaust is a dual-grid character that works well with energy or strength decks. But we didn't have a cheap option if you want to use a Fighting/Intellect deck. So I made several options, filling the gaps.
That system have been working very well, since we never noticed a key staple character (some are overused due to the popularity of the character itself). To be honest, X-Babies still a key staple, but now they have a DC counterpart with reverse power ratings (the JLA Jr.)
About Luke Cage, the first version was based in my knowledge from older comic books. Since the character joined the Avengers and made to the major league, his strength levels have been portrayed in higher levels. I can provide some examples, if you are interested.
If you want to create a rating system, maybe you should take a look in the old Marvel RPG's FASERIP (http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg140/scaled.php?server=140&filename=universaltablewq0.jpg&res=landing)
here's some of the rating system i came up with
strength (downgraded class 100 to 7, and peak human to 3ish)
8 superman (super-heavyweights)
7 thing (~100 tons)
6 iron man (50-100 tons)
5 spider-man (10-50 tons)
4 beast (~10 tons)
3 captain america (~ton)
2 green arrow (regular-fit human)
1 jubilee (lifts body weight and under)
every other icon would come back to stregth, since it's the only one that can be 'measured'. if your energy powers can keep you competetive with thing, but not superman, you're a 7.
i'd roll speed into the fighting category, and axe intellect all together (no one agrees)
so a character like flash would be 8 fighting (since his speed lets him compete with the top tiers). wolverine would probably only be a 6 or 7...leaning towards 7
Thanks guys.
I finally found the link I was looking for. In the discussion linked below Palatinus makes the best assessment of what I think the OP strength "rating system" is/ should be. Also on page two the Dude has the energy rating system (probably the hardest to quantify) that makes the most sense to me for OP.
http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=244.15
Intellect is also VERY tricky for me. Four or less is one thing, but a 5i vs a 6i vs a 7i is another. I mean is Banner not as smart as Stark? Perhpas not, but I recently read a hulk series were he's teaching his son Skaar to take down the hulk in case he ever turns again and he's using nothing but his smarts and tech throughout. (Its actually very impressive use of force fields and strength enhancers) I may post some pics from it some time. I think Bios made a Hulk character card with 7i. To me it doesn't mean the hulk has 7i while operating as Hulk necessarily. Maybe he reverts to banner and is apply that egg head of his. ;)
Random rant on the hulk for OP (and I know you could do this for just about every character in the game). Why didn't he get a level 6 or 7 anypower AR special for his thunderclap attack? While I'm in fantasy land I might as well also suggest a personal negate for his 'shurg off' special. 8) Heck Morbius got a negate...(albeit a unique one) :o
i got a question?
how come the og for colossus is OPD while the others arent?
og btw is actually (http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/136.png)
Quote from: steve2275 on May 09, 2012, 04:20:35 AM
i got a question?
how come the og for colossus is OPD while the others arent?
og btw is actually
I don't mean to be rude, but how this question is related to the "rating system" issue?
Quote from: Nostalgic on May 08, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
Thanks guys.
I finally found the link I was looking for. In the discussion linked below Palatinus makes the best assessment of what I think the OP strength "rating system" is/ should be. Also on page two the Dude has the energy rating system (probably the hardest to quantify) that makes the most sense to me for OP.
http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=244.15
Intellect is also VERY tricky for me. Four or less is one thing, but a 5i vs a 6i vs a 7i is another. I mean is Banner not as smart as Stark? Perhpas not, but I recently read a hulk series were he's teaching his son Skaar to take down the hulk in case he ever turns again and he's using nothing but his smarts and tech throughout. (Its actually very impressive use of force fields and strength enhancers) I may post some pics from it some time. I think Bios made a Hulk character card with 7i. To me it doesn't mean the hulk has 7i while operating as Hulk necessarily. Maybe he reverts to banner and is apply that egg head of his. ;)
Random rant on the hulk for OP (and I know you could do this for just about every character in the game). Why didn't he get a level 6 or 7 anypower AR special for his thunderclap attack? While I'm in fantasy land I might as well also suggest a personal negate for his 'shurg off' special. 8) Heck Morbius got a negate...(albeit a unique one) :o
Yeah, those really make sense. I guess a good rating system could actually help. But sometimes we need to make a few adjustments to fit a character into the 16-23 sum grid range. Not a big issue anyway.
well i did ask a question :P
rather make a new thread for 1 question
Quote from: Nostalgic on May 08, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
Random rant on the hulk for OP (and I know you could do this for just about every character in the game). Why didn't he get a level 6 or 7 anypower AR special for his thunderclap attack? While I'm in fantasy land I might as well also suggest a personal negate for his 'shurg off' special. 8) Heck Morbius got a negate...(albeit a unique one) :o
That's really funny that you mention that, since, when I.Q. dropped and I found out that The Hulk only recieved 1 Special card for the set, but that Nick Fury recieved Howling Commandos, a lvl 8A non-OPD special card, I immediately drew up one of those for The Hulk and named it Thunderous Hand Clap.
As for the stats themselves, I've never made any homemade character's really, my friends always did that, but I was fond of tweaking existing stats so that they made more sense to the character. I drew up plenty of Special cards, though, a lot of which were based on characters I felt got screwed or were, like the case of The Hulk, simply abilities of the character's which I felt were overlooked. A few cards got re-written, since I feel that the Special Spider-Sense doesn't due justice to Spider-Man in any kind of playable way, and since it's always active I felt it needed to be something more impressive then "mind-reading" my opponent's Specials for 1 hand. I forgot now how I re-wrote it, but I'm sure I have my notes somewhere. I have notebooks and notebooks pertaining to gaming over the years, everything from Overpower to Chrono-Trigger.
Quote from: breadmaster on May 08, 2012, 05:22:14 PM
every other icon would come back to stregth, since it's the only one that can be 'measured'. if your energy powers can keep you competetive with thing, but not superman, you're a 7.
i'd roll speed into the fighting category, and axe intellect all together (no one agrees)
so a character like flash would be 8 fighting (since his speed lets him compete with the top tiers). wolverine would probably only be a 6 or 7...leaning towards 7
I get where you're coming from, but as I recall the intellect stat was first created for the DC characters to be able to compete because many don't beat you with E, F, or S alone. Not their 'strong suit' as they say. ;)
Going back to energy as it relates to speed I think of the youtube link I posted in the thread I linked to above. Flash or Quicksilver could just run circles around you creating a whirlwind without even throwing a punch. This would have to be some form of energy attack. When I think of the designers intent as it relates to Superman's 7E, Quicksilver's 7E, and Flash (who should have a 7E or drop Quicksilver's to 6) it means SUPER speed has to be worth something on the energy scale. Of course Superman also flight, freeze breath, heat/x-ray vision, and super hearing, All relevant in a fight.
As far as Wolverine's fighting ability goes his super senses, healing factor, adamantium skeleton (huge in a fight) all have to factor in. I mean if Bataman could be considered for an 8F (a fair question), Shang Chi is a 7F, Captain America is an 8F (fair enough) and Bullseye got an 8F :o (we probably agree he shouldn't have) then Wolverine gets an 8F on principle. Beyond his famous "Best at what I do" line, there's Forge's assessment.
Quote from Wikipedia:
When Forge monitors Wolverine's vitals during a Danger Room training session, he calls Logan's physical and mental state "equivalent of an Olympic-level gymnast performing a gold medal routine while simultaneously beating four chess computers in his head."I think of fighting as how skilled a combatant is with their 2 hands, 2 feet, and any guns or close combat weapons they use regularly. Additionally, how one would defend an attacks in dodging some, blocking some, taking some blows (in a calculated way) and the perhaps even the ability to do this for an extended time all are part of the mix. If Forge is correct about Wolverine then a guy with that much going on when he fights has got to be a bad @$$. 8)
i agree, wolverine should be an 8 based on the way the game is played now
if i was to revamp it though, an 8 is equal to an 8 in any other stat. and since wolverine could never take out superman, he wouldn't get an 8 in fighting
Quote from: breadmaster on May 10, 2012, 05:44:41 PM
i agree, wolverine should be an 8 based on the way the game is played now
if i was to revamp it though, an 8 is equal to an 8 in any other stat. and since wolverine could never take out superman, he wouldn't get an 8 in fighting
I don't think superman should be used as a benchmark for strength or what would give a character an 8 fighting. He has too many other factors beyond strength. Though any strong opponent will have a certain amount of durability, Superman, or his Marvel equivalent, Thor, are basically invulnerable to conventional attack. If you use someone like Thing or Colossus it's a little different.
A level 8 strength power card could be the character picking up something really heavy and throwing it. It's easy to think of defense 8 in the energy category blocking it, but fighting is a different matter entirely. If the raw strength attack is defended by a level 8 fighting power card there would have to be more than just a block. It could be throwing a grenade to blow enough chunks out of the thing to get away or rolling with and deflecting the 'super punch' in some way. That's where you have to think about reflexes and all the other things advanced fighters have.
It's a paper rock scissors system for simplicity but we all know the actual fight would be different and sort of beyond the scope of the game. The more I think about it the more it seems you almost have to just compare fighters to fighters. Some use guns, some swords, and some claws and teeth, but ultimately it's all subjective I suppose.
(That's were specials SHOULD come in... :P)
you're right about superman being a poor indicator for strength, since he has so many other abilities
how bout juggernaut? intellect and fighting are nothing above average human, and energy could be 1 (or as high as you want, if you'd count his force field as an energy icon...i personally wouldn't)
the way i think about stats is, if you plucked the characters off the street and put them in a steel (or adamantium ;)) cage, how would they fare?
of course a character like luthor wouldn't do well under these conditions, but that's where his specials should shine. stuff like tactics, alliances, intellect...that stuff all comes into play with venture and specials. to me, stats are about raw power
Quote from: breadmaster on May 14, 2012, 06:47:30 PMhow bout juggernaut? intellect and fighting are nothing above average human, and energy could be 1 (or as high as you want, if you'd count his force field as an energy icon...i personally wouldn't)
Juggernaut is better for these purposes, but I think Thing is best.
Quote from: breadmaster on May 14, 2012, 06:47:30 PM
the way i think about stats is, if you plucked the characters off the street and put them in a steel (or adamantium ;)) cage, how would they fare?
I think that only works if you're comparing "apples to apples" as it were. If your putting fighter vs fighter or Energy vs Energy in that cage perhaps its a little different. Then again if we're honest, it would differently to determine each stat. Fighters get the cage, but is that with or without weapons? Strong guys get to arm wrestle. How do you compare energy? Is it area affect, property damage, people damage, or all of the above? If you choose (d) then how are those weighted? Is phoenix blowing up a city the same as Prof X making everyone's ears bleed? Do IQ guys take a IQ test? It's all relative really which is the beauty of having mission cards, specials, teamworks, double shots, etc...
Quote from: breadmaster on May 14, 2012, 06:47:30 PM
of course a character like luthor wouldn't do well under these conditions, but that's where his specials should shine. stuff like tactics, alliances, intellect...that stuff all comes into play with venture and specials. to me, stats are about raw power
Agreed. The missions and cards that allow teamwork are some of the main reasons the intellect stat even works. This is from a comic battle reinactment standpoint and not the steel cage deathmatch of course.