Overpower: Power Balance - New Custom Expansion!

[Nostalgic]

What if mulitpower cards had a different discard rule than regular power cards... say level 4multipower cards aren't considered dupes of other level 4 power cards, but ARE dupes of other 4 multipower cards?

I actually like the multipower restriction/requirements. Frankly, I wish the tactic double shots would have been handled this way in the original game. They are neater and more useful. The character cards and anypower cards and multi-5 are all awesome.  I'm curious what BBH thinks about some of these rules.

[breadmaster]

nic, max 6s aren't really pumped up.  what gets the boost, are characters that have NO stat lower than 4 or 5.  jubilee and shadowcat wouldn't apply

under PBs rules, you can only use a multipower card that is as high as your lowest stat

[CoS]

private e-mail sent. I just need the total price to ship to Alaska (Zip 99577) and a paypal addy and I will pick up a set...

[thetrooper27]

I can't wait to get some good feedback, because at first glance, I think it's a neat idea.  And I too am awaiting BBH's assessment.  Where's he at?

[Nostalgic]

Read through most of the site and was wondering how you arrived at the stats for the various characters. Not that I have a problem with any of them, but having seen so many other homemade characters its just something that interests me.  For instance I've seen Abominantion with a an identical grid to Thing, with a 7 fighting, and of course your version.  I suppose its all subjective, but as you were so 'scientific' with some of your other reasoning I wondered if something similar was applied to the character stats.

[PowerBalance]

Ncannelora, thanks for the input! You've raised some good questions! Hopefully I can help to clarify:

1) Should Jubilee and Shadowcat really have a shot against Magneto?

Ha ha - I guess I haven't really explained it very clearly at the moment. The goal wasn't really to make max-6 characters beat max-8 characters, and I think my previous posts may have been trying to illustrate this. What I mean is that people who have equivalent point values, should ideally have the same effectiveness. The problem is a max-8 character with the same point value as a character with max-6 always has the advantage, and a large advantage at that. The goal of OverPower: Power Balance was just to make it so that the characters with equivalent point values could actually be a match for each other in some way. This was done by introducing new cards and introducing a mathematically derived point value, which actually takes into account all cards they can play (including new cards produced for Power Balance) and their overall offensive and defensive capability. As I mentioned on the website, this was a HUGE task, so I actually paid a mathematician to do this for me, but just with me as guidance.

Jubilee still doesn't have a chance against Magneto, and this is reflected in her point value (Jubilee = 15.0, Magneto = 25.6).

What I was really trying to say was that now that max-8 characters cost more, and max 6s who can be quite effective are given a higher Point Value, it is now possible to create a team of effective max-6s who can MATCH a team of characters that include max-8 characters, provided both teams adhere to the Point Value rule. They won't ALWAYS win, but have a much better chance. In an ideal world, a team of well constructed teams of equivalent point value should each have a 50% chance of winning. I hope I haven't confused people even more! LOL!

2) Every card in your deck must be playable from the start, with no modifications, right?

You might be right about this. Can anyone else comment on this? Does that mean Dazzler's Longshot Love doesn't allow you to include Longshot special cards unless Longshot is actually on the team?

3) It seems like one of my favorite Homebases gets a lot better under some of these new variations - DANGER ROOM!

Yes, it does. People should actually try playing with some of the Homebase teams that couldn't be played before. It really is quite refreshing to play a previously non-viable Homebase team and now actually have it be competitive (well, in some cases). Give it a try anyway! LOL! You'll at least get to see teams used now that weren't used before!

TheTrooper27, you've got a lot of good ideas! Making MultiPower Power cards different with regards to discarding was an idea we had played with, but found that it would only benefit people who could play MultiPower cards and not people who had good all-round values in 3 stats, but not the 4th. It may be something to consider if the game is still not balanced though, but at the moment, it seems playable. Give it a test and let me know though!

CoS, thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, I won't be getting the next batch in until next Friday, but I'll get back to you as soon as I get them in. I promise!

Nostalgic, thanks for your comments as well! Actually, the Power Grids were largely determined from either the Official Marvel Website (they have a power grid rating on most characters) together with what other people had made previously. A select few were modified to meet the requirements of the game, like Sauron.

[Nostalgic]

TheTrooper27, you've got 2) Every card in your deck must be playable from the start, with no modifications, right?

You might be right about this. Can anyone else comment on this? Does that mean Dazzler's Longshot Love doesn't allow you to include Longshot special cards unless Longshot is actually on the team?

And the answer is...

Meta #102 Specials which grant the ability to play with certain Special cards do not alter which Special cards can be placed in your deck. The only Character-specific Special cards which can be placed in your deck are for the 4 Characters on your team. You may not put in Specials for non-team members in anticipation of making them playable via another Special.

Nostalgic, thanks for your comments as well! Actually, the Power Grids were largely determined from either the Official Marvel Website (they have a power grid rating on most characters) together with what other people had made previously. A select few were modified to meet the requirements of the game, like Sauron.

Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but under your rules for multi power cards couldn't Ghost Rider use a level four 3-stat multi power card since his intellect wouldn't be a factor?

[PowerBalance]

Ah hah! Good work Nostalgic. Well, at least we know that strategy is not viable, using the Artifact card that way - althought I guess it would still be useful if there was one other character on your team able to play a 5 Multi. Let's try and find more holes in the system to see if there is anything that has been overlooked, and the rectify any issues that may still be present!

Ha ha - Nostalgic, you really are thinking, hey? During analysis, Power Balance faced an issue when trying to match use of 3-stat characters with 4-stat characters, as a result of the use of the 3 icon MultiPower card. Issues brought up were:
1) Could 4-stat characters use 3-icon MultiPower cards if they had stats high enough in Energy, Fighting and Strength?
2) The 3 icon MultiPower still functions as a fifth Power Type, since it acts just like, and fuses with, a 4-icon MultiPower card, so is just as effective as a 4-icon. Should it really have a different requirement to play?
3) If they were just as effective, should they be playable by 3-stat characters at all?
4) How would you calculate for character effectiveness taking all previously described factors into account?
The mathematician said it we weren't really comparing like with like, and there were so many confounding factors. I ended up deciding to not allow 3-stat characters to fight alongside 4-stat characters for this reason. I understand many people would not like it, but I wasn't able to come up witha solution. Suggestions, anyone?

[CoS]

OP:P B - so if you paid a 1) mathematician 2) commissioned artist and 3) printer what interest would you have in commissioning an amazing web programer to allow us to have a web-based Overpower game that we could play from any web-accessible device? I know that I would be interested in helping defray the programmer's costs and that Bios is actually talking with a programmer who has an established track record in implementing "dead" ccg into a vibrant online community.

Check this link for Decipher's Lord of the Rings CCG fully implemented web based play (tournaments, league, merchant, foil subset, promo cards etc.)  You will have to register to check out all the cool features but the deckbuilder and exporter of decklists and ability to watch and comment on others games as well as post "game replay links" is SO COOL!

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/

[gameplan.exe]

PowerBalance -

First of all, I get what you're saying then, about a max-6 squaring off against a max-8. So, it's not that EVERY max-6 should be closer to the levels of a max-8, only that SOME should get closer. That makes sense. I guess I'll just have to actually read your website 
on the plus-side, I plan on ordering at LEAST 1 set. I'll certainly give everything a thorough review then 

nic, max 6s aren't really pumped up.  what gets the boost, are characters that have NO stat lower than 4 or 5.  jubilee and shadowcat wouldn't apply

under PBs rules, you can only use a multipower card that is as high as your lowest stat

I got that, but the impression I was getting was that the boosts were more than just in the Multi's.

On that note, this is actually the revision I am the MOST interested in implimenting. Honestly, as I teach the game to my kids (as I'm actually doing now  ), I might actually adopt this anyway! HAHA!!

[Nostalgic]

nic, max 6s aren't really pumped up.  what gets the boost, are characters that have NO stat lower than 4 or 5.  jubilee and shadowcat wouldn't apply

under PBs rules, you can only use a multipower card that is as high as your lowest stat

I got that, but the impression I was getting was that the boosts were more than just in the Multi's.

On that note, this is actually the revision I am the MOST interested in implimenting. Honestly, as I teach the game to my kids (as I'm actually doing now  ), I might actually adopt this anyway! HAHA!!

I really like that too. I also like the simplified double shots and that they can combine with a 1-5 power card for an attack or defense similar reason. (max 6ers giving the 8s something to think about..  )I'm not sure about the mechanic of allowing the doubleshot to separate out into 2 defensive actions since you also have to alter how multiple attacks from  teamwork/ally cards are played. (simultaneously as opposed to consecutively)

Ironically, back in highschool we used to lay all the attacks down from a teamwork simultaneously because we didn't know the difference.  I know for a fact it makes the games longer because you get always pick the most optimum response from your hand to defend with. When you have to respond to each attack without knowing what's comming next its easier to create an imbalance or a surprise KO.

[thetrooper27]

I really like that too. I also like the simplified double shots and that they can combine with a 1-5 power card for an attack or defense similar reason. (max 6ers giving the 8s something to think about..  )I'm not sure about the mechanic of allowing the doubleshot to separate out into 2 defensive actions since you also have to alter how multiple attacks from  teamwork/ally cards are played. (simultaneously as opposed to consecutively)

Ironically, back in highschool we used to lay all the attacks down from a teamwork simultaneously because we didn't know the difference.  I know for a fact it makes the games longer because you get always pick the most optimum response from your hand to defend with. When you have to respond to each attack without knowing what's comming next its easier to create an imbalance or a surprise KO.

I was a little iffy on the spitting defense with doubleshots for exactly the same reason, and also, back in the day, me and my friends used to play all of our teamwork attacks at once, as well as any chain attacks from AA's and so forth.  The reason was because of DB specials... which reads "avoid all attacks from 1 teamwork card" and we figured that meant you had to make them all at once.  DB's were totally awesome in this case, and we didn't play many teamworks because of it.  I think this, too would be an issue with Power Balance, because you would have to make all of your teamwork attacks at once, and I would prefer making them one at a time.  Teamworks are kind of a big deal, and tho there aren't many DB specials, there is one for any hero, and The Outback is a popular battlesite already, and much better with this rule in effect.  So I'm not totally sold on the play all teamwork attacks at once part, but other than that, I'm liking Power Balance more and more as I read... just need to play with someone.  If only there were someone to play cards with around here!

[PowerBalance]

CoS, funny you mention it, as I was hoping for something similar as well. Because the cards are so hard to collect now, newcomers who could potentially be interested in the game wouldn't have any real way to get into it. Unless there was a web based program!

I had already started trying to document the rules of the game in a more procedural manners facilitate production of something like this, as programmers need things to be very clear cut - http://www.oppowerbalance.net/rulebook.pdf. This project could be VERY expensive though, especially if we really wanted it to look professional. Anyway, worth a think and perhaps a new discussion topic to gauge level of interest from the rest of the community.

Ncannelora, that's cool you're teaching the kids to play. OverPower lives into the next generation! Yeah!

Nostalgic, yeah, admittedly, it can be difficult to accept changes with regard to way things are played. I do think it really does balance the overwhelming power of teamwork cards with what DoubleShots are capable of now. Surprisingly, the games now actually still last the same duration, because DoubleShots played cleverly can potentially make the games really short since K.O.s can happen within just two lethal moves that are much harder to block! In any case, feel free to give me your feedback as you may have a different experience!

TheTrooper24, ha ha, yes, I did come across the same thing with regard to the "Avoid all attacks from a Teamwork card"! Now the card works as it says - all attacks made with the teamwork card are avoided with just that one special, but we can make it so that it only avoids attacks made ON THE CHARACTER who played the card, since the special doesn't say "teammate" may avoid all attacks from 1 teamwork card. As a result, if you know someone has one of these DB specials, split your teamwork attacks up to be made on different characters, so the effect of this card is minimsed. It does instill a little fear in people playing Teamwork cards, especially those max-8s who rely on Teamwork cards to score the lower level Power Cards for spectrum K.O.! Again, please feel free to give it a test, and let me know.

[CoS]

i love playing in leagues (special formats) as well as tournaments. of course the prizes are virtual packs to add to your "my card" collections. you can always play casual games using "all cards". this way people don't just play with all the power house characters in tournaments and leagues as you need to accumulate your collection by opening packs

[PowerBalance]

Hey guys, just a quick update on the shipping situation - another small batch will be arriving by air on Friday (or next Monday at the latest). Those who have already contacted me will have sets reserved for them. There will still be two more sets that will be available before the bigger batch arrives in 2 1/2 weeks by sea, so if you want a copy before having to wait another 2 1/2 weeks, please let me know so I can hold it aside for you. Thanks everyone!