Is Beyonder bad for OP?

[MHC]

I have seen a few people state that Beyond is bad for OP, and I don't understand why this sentiment exists.  So, I would like to have a discussion about what is bad/good about Beyonder. 

Please note that I am only interested in how Beyonder affects game play, deck construction, etc.  I understand that there are some potentially large flavor issues with trying to make Beyonder into an OP character - I am not interested in debating this point.  You can imagine the question is reframed in the following way:

Overpower has been rebooted without changes (all sets re-released as they were originally printed).  Someone wants to have character XXXX released, where character XXXX is identical to Beyonder in stats and inherent ability (only difference is name).  Given what we know about how Beyonder works in OP, what are the arguments for or against creating such a character. 


My opinion: I think Beyonder (or XXXX) is a good for the game.  Beyonder allows for very creative decks (e.g., Jubilee, Beast, Mr. Fantastic, Beyonder).  Beyonder also supports an important deck archetype for OP:  KO event decks.  I think Beyonder is well-balanced (after errata about OPDs). The 28 points is restrictive enough that many good characters cannot be played with Beyonder (e.g., Spawn).   In addition, the 28 points is so high that you have to build a deck around Beyonder if you want to use him.   However, the benefit of doing so is quite strong since you get to use specials after characters are KO'd (which allows you to utilize the KO events).  Beyonder also facilitates combo (or long chain) decks, which I think  is good thing.  Neither of these deck archetypes (long chains and KO events) are so strong that they dominate tournament scenes, but they do make good showings once in a while. 

[breadmaster]

look back at the tournament winners

how many decks feature beyonder

how many decks feature spawn/strange/anys/shattered image

beyonder is fine, though I think adding him to battlesites was a mistake (both gameplay and comics-wise)

[MHC]

I agree with the complaint about adding Beyonder to battlesites.  That change does not make much sense to me. 

[justa]

IMHO, there is not really anything good about "Beyonder".
The battlesite usage is iffy, because as a minimum it includes 1 unusable card in your deck (for the activated special you use it with).
As a character, it is RIDICULOUS!  The Beyonder is limited in his abilities by who is on his team?  Be real.
The gimick is somewhat viable, but it would be more appropriate for a character like Mimic (as adamsonofwilliam did him), where Calvin can only immitate the powers of those near him.  But try building a team with a variable grid character - it isn't easy.
If you just want the gimmick (as so many tournament teams seem to), I guess it works.  But if you like a little "realism" (in the comics sense) in your OP, Beyonder has no place in a 4-stat 8 ponit max grid scheme.

[MHC]

IMHO, there is not really anything good about "Beyonder".
The battlesite usage is iffy, because as a minimum it includes 1 unusable card in your deck (for the activated special you use it with).
As a character, it is RIDICULOUS!  The Beyonder is limited in his abilities by who is on his team?  Be real.
The gimick is somewhat viable, but it would be more appropriate for a character like Mimic (as adamsonofwilliam did him), where Calvin can only immitate the powers of those near him.  But try building a team with a variable grid character - it isn't easy.
If you just want the gimmick (as so many tournament teams seem to), I guess it works.  But if you like a little "realism" (in the comics sense) in your OP, Beyonder has no place in a 4-stat 8 ponit max grid scheme.

Just to make sure I understand your post, it seems you have two complaints.  One is flavor-based (which doesn't affect game play). The second seems to be it isn't easy to build a team with a character that has a variable grid. 

[justa]

Beyonder as in the legacy cards is not variable.  He costs 28 point to use.  That means using 3 16 grid characters, or a 16, 17, & X babies or some other 15 grid character (none other in tournament play), or diving into the low level 3-stat characters.  I personally am against using 3 stat characters, as I feel it goes against the IQ upgrade.  But its legal in tournaments.
So basically, its more the flavor (to use your term) that I object to.  I think the "gimmick" (stats & specials usage) is more appropriate for a character like Calvin Rankin.  As a game mechanic, Beyonder works.  From my limited view of the universe, Beyonder is a hideous misrepresentation.  justa my opinion of it all..........

[clericblackdave]

There are 2 types of players in strategy card games

Those who want to be able to make gimmick decks with "gotcha" moments

And those who want to be able to play a game and really more or less normally slug it out.



Beyonder, Battlesites, original power leech, DOW, certain special cards, hell even events all lead to the increased ability to create and play with these "gotcha" decks.  As a player wanting to play a normal-ish game, I don't really like many of these things.


On the whole, I think mostly die-hard strategy card game player though do like the gotcha decks, and that element.  I personally hate it.


In any case, I would say Beyonder isn't the end of the world, I think he's just unnecessary and gimmicky and a part of a larger problem, which is that the creators of OP didn't really understand game testing or game balance.  And when they realized something was unbalanced (battlesites) they would overcorrect with something else unbalanced (DOW)