single most powerful character (pre Marvels)

[Bullio]

All things taken into consideration, who would you consider the single most powerful character pre-Marvels, and why?  It's a tough choice for me, but I think I'd go with Professor X.  Great totals for 3 and 4 stat which make him a great choice for those expensive E/I decks, and he has a great selection of specials.

[Onslaught]

I think it comes down to Mr. Fantastic vs. Donald Pierce.

Fantastic has a non-avoidable OPD that wins venture, an 8 stat (the most valuable thing in the game), and only costs 17. Two other usable special cards and a third situationally useful card gives him great balance. Non-avoidable specials that win venture are the best cards in the game, 8 stat characters are essential, and his low cost gives you access to the higher point total characters.

Donald Pierce is the most useful dual stat negate character, and has a neutral cost of 19. His specials are on par with Scarlet Witch, and in certain decks the access to Deathstrike is a huge boon.

Both of these characters are powerful even when graded in a vacuum. That is to say, if Character X was a 2852 with Mr. Fantastic's specials, he would still be considered top tier. However, when you take into account that Fantastic and Donald Pierce both have intellect as their main stat, that gives them a tiny edge over characters like Spawn, X-Man, Scarlet Witch, etc. Not only are intellect icons the most scarce (and thus the most valuable for spectrum KO), they are also the least likely to be impacted by other cards. This means that you gain access to cards like Shockwave Rocks the World, but much more importantly it means you are immune to your opponent's likely Anti-Energy and Anti-Fighting cards.

Our group conducted a poll a while ago to vote on the best characters. Since character strength is relative to the overall goals of your deck, the conditions were that you already had a nameless team consisting of an 8 stat character, a negate character, a glue character, a character that can play cards from reserve, and synergy between Battlesite/Events. If an imaginary fifth character was added to that lineup, rank the top 10 characters you would be most likely to use.  To control for point cost, there was an imagined bonus or penalty depending on the sum of your fifth character. For example, for each point over 19 your fifth character is, opponent is +2 to venture in the first turn. The actual penalty isn't important, but it just acknowledges that characters who cost less than 19 should be considered more valuable. The results were:


1. Donald Pierce
2. H4H
3. Scarlet Witch
4. X-Man
5. Starjammers
6. Spawn
7. Professor X
8. Mr. Fantastic
9. Reavers
10. Beyonder

This was a very simplified point system, with no weight given to position. Any first place point received ten points, second place received nine points, and so on. Due to this, The Reavers came in ninth place even though only one voter included them in his top ten. This is a pretty good gauge, but I'd drop the Reavers for X-Babies. Invisible Woman and Cable are hovering right around the top ten too, I'd maybe put one of them higher than Beyonder. Of course, the cool thing about Overpower is that there is generally no way to quantify value (which is strange to say about a game that revolves around betting on who has the highest numbers). So in any given deck, the cohesion of the lineup may make a team of lower rated characters much more powerful than a deck composed of strong characters without a unified strategy.

[breadmaster]

good post, but of course, i have to disagree with an 8 stat being the most important thing in the game

[steve2275]

I think it comes down to Mr. Fantastic vs. Donald Pierce.

Fantastic has a non-avoidable OPD that wins venture,

and what OPD would that be?

[Onslaught]

good post, but of course, i have to disagree with an 8 stat being the most important thing in the game

Even before accounting for special cards, eight stat characters automatically add three or four cards to your deck. The average venture of those four cards added by an eight stat character is 7.5, which is over 25% higher than the median card in most decks. Adding non-duping cards to a deck is extremely important, even if they aren't particularly useful. For example, A-Next and ally cards are low to venture and have marginal effects, yet they are a staple in every deck. Now compare them to how much venture an 8-stat character brings to the table, and the value of 8 stat characters is plainly evident.

Outside of raw numbers, 8 stats also provide virtual card advantage. All other things being equal, eight stat characters are harder to kill since they have access to extra defense. They bring extra offensive efficiency, since they can more easily make the precious level 10 followups to teamworks (as well as launch teamworks that allow a level 7 powercard to also reach 10). On top of all that, the overwhelming majority of games that go into the power pack are decided by whichever player has the helathiest 8 stat character(s). When you consider all those positive factors (on top of a deck designed around maximizing those strengths), it becomes clear that 8 stat characters are the strongest.

Important Distinction: While they are the most important thing in the game, it doesn't mean they are mandatory. Certain combinations of special cards, inherent abilities, and other various comboish interactions can combine in ways that give you an overall output that is better than what you would have gotten with an 8 stat character. I don't want newer players to read this and think that Overpower deckbuilding follows a confining template, because it doesn't.

On an individual basis of comparison though, a 7 stat character would have to have around NINE (!) playable specials in order to have more value than an 8 stat character with just average specials. Very few characters can reach this threshold. Cable comes close if you play him in a team without any other energy or fighting characters. Once again though, it's hard to quantify Overpower. Some cards should count more than others when determining if they come close to having "nine" specials to be comparable to an 8 stat. How many specials should something like Viking Pyre count as? Two, because it's so powerful? Maybe even more since it can remove the less useful/higher duping/lower to venture cards that you were forced to add by not having an 8 stat character. Or, you could even make the argument that Viking Pyre alone is enough to make Thor better than an 8 stat character since you may be using a deck that can win the game immediately after playing it. What about a character with an AI in a Thor deck? No eight stat character has an AI, and AI's help clear the way for your venture winning cards like Viking Pyre. If a seven stat character has an AI but only brings six unique cards to the deck, does the synergy between Thor and the AI character make up the difference in those missing three deck spaces that an 8 stat character would fill? The math can't take things like this into account. However, the math still shows that you need to have a damn good reason for not playing an eight stat character. One of the most fun aspects of deck building is trying to find out what those "good reasons" are, and subjective card evaluation like this is one of the things that makes Overpower so great.

[a_noble_kaz]

If I had to pick a single character, it would have to be Mr Fantastic:

• one of seven 8stats that saves at least two points on a 15 or 16 grid team
• has an AR
• has AD for teammate
• the above pictured HQ

Also, one thing that I've noticed about Mr F is that he seems to be a VIP in my decks, both because of his useful cards and his AD for teammate. It adds to his intrinsic value: putting less cards in for him and anticipating his dying first has been beneficial for me with past decks.

Also, Onslaught pretty much said all of that, I just thought I'd add my two cents.

[gameplan.exe]

I'd still say ProfX > Mr. F
Mr.F is a point cheaper - no real debate there.
I think his HQ is more or less equally valuable to Prof's BG, as a non-avoidable venture-winning card. BG can be played defensively, too.
I think Mr.F's AR is less valuable than having access to 2, non-dup, off-suit TW cards
Considering Mr.F and ProfX are often both first-targets for an Opponent, I'd consider that Mr.F's teammate AD is less useful than ProfX's AG/AH availability.
I think his AV is exactly the same as Prof's AV 

It's a good debate, though. I guess for me, in the end, it looks like this:

Gambit > Professor X > Mr.Fantastic 

[DiceK]

Explain to me how Gambit is the best? 

[gameplan.exe]

Explain to me how Gambit is the best?

because.

[a_noble_kaz]

I would have to value an HQ over a BG because, played correctly, an HQ can win the venture by itself. Now, the BG is killer, don't get me wrong, but it still requires other cards to make it effective.

[DiceK]

What defines an "Action"?

[Bullio]

However, when you take into account that Fantastic and Donald Pierce both have intellect as their main stat, that gives them a tiny edge over characters like Spawn, X-Man, Scarlet Witch, etc. Not only are intellect icons the most scarce (and thus the most valuable for spectrum KO), they are also the least likely to be impacted by other cards. This means that you gain access to cards like Shockwave Rocks the World, but much more importantly it means you are immune to your opponent's likely Anti-Energy and Anti-Fighting cards.

This is one thing I actually really like about Professor X.  He's free to use the 8E when he can, but if it gets shut out or has its effectiveness diminished he has that 7I to fall back on.  True, he's a point more expensive than Mr. Fantastic, but I think that extra point is greatly outweighed by having two high-value stats whereas Fantastic is really just a single stat character.  X's 7I is a high-value supplemental utility stat whereas Fantastic's 8I, while certainly higher, is all he has.

I also think X's self defense, specifically the AG and AH, are bigger boons considering he's a top-priority KO.  Fantastic's AD is certainly nice, but it's completely useless against someone who is prioritizing him.  Prof's BQ isn't worthless for defense either, and it helps everyone on the team.  Thus giving him yet another boost to his defense.

Offensively I don't think there's any contest.  Professor X can play two teamworks, has two stats to deal the pain with, the AQ, and the BG in certain situations.  You might eventually lose access to the teamworks, and the specials are one-shots, but the dual stat doesn't go away.  I've found that to be real helpful with the power pack, assuming it gets that far, since you have two stats to work with for the spectrum.  Fantastic's AR is nice, but it would be much more useful if it were in any other stat.

I guess it boils down to situation, but tit-for-tat I think Professor X is simply more powerful and useful than Mr. Fantastic.

[gameplan.exe]

I would have to value an HQ over a BG because, played correctly, an HQ can win the venture by itself. Now, the BG is killer, don't get me wrong, but it still requires other cards to make it effective.

The HQ needs a good draw (of the top 3), the BG needs a good draw (of the initial hand).

Even if you wait till you have no more cards in the battle, the HQ has the potential to backfire by drawing unusable cards (dead specials, TW you can no longer follow, Events, etc).

The BG can't ever really backfire that way. As soon as it's played, it's effective. Even if you get it with a hand that has zero iconic cards (lol, "iconic"), you place it and when you play it the next hand, it will be effective.

[DiceK]

So If you were playing HQ and Played a BG before it, you get to draw 5 cards?

[gameplan.exe]

So If you were playing HQ and Played a BG before it, you get to draw 5 cards?

sorry, no. The BG only adds 2 to icons on a card. So, all power cards, all attack specials, and defensive specials if they have an icon-value, like a CC, or an MH (from THE MARVELS).