spider-man: 8 fighting?

[breadmaster]

besides making marvel's flagship character more playable, i think he should have the 8 anyways

he should be able to take at least half of the fights with the other 8Fs, with the exceptions of wonder woman and galactus (possibly zealot...i know nothing about her)

E:1
F:8
S:6
I:6

thoughts?

[gameplan.exe]

that's the tricky thing about a power grid. Spider-Man can stand up to a lot of those other 8Fighters, but I think a lot of that has to do with his strength and intelligence. Without his spider-strength, I'm not sure he could go toe-to-toe with many of those 8F, not for long, anyway. I'm sure he could play keep-away, but I don't think he could actually defeat them.

I had the same complication when I was thinking about Gambit's grid. Gambit is, no doubt, a formidable opponent in a one-on-one fight. He's gone toe-to-toe with Sabretooth, Wolverine, and the entirety Assassin's Guild as a whole (read: The Hand). But, his fighting style relies heavily on his energy abilities. If it weren't for them, he's really only a master of one kind of martial art (Savate). His mutant speed/agility help, but aside from that, his stand-alone fighting skill should probably be a 6. The same sort of arguement is made of his energy rating. It's quite effective, the way he uses it, but it's not on the level of Cyclops or Storm.

Having said all that, it's still certainly arguable that Spider-Man's Fighting should be an 8. And, I'm 100% for making Spider-Man better, for all of the flagship-type reasons you stated. So, by all means, make a variant!

[breadmaster]

interesting points.  however, if spidey loses his strength, so should his opponent.  then he can just web them up ftw.  (i don't think anyone human has broken his webbing...maybe kingpin?)

the keep away point is interesting.  if he dodges a whole fight, according to most MMA judges the opponent would be awarded the win

as far as intelligence goes, i've always thought it should be rolled into fighting, and eliminated, but that's another topic

[gameplan.exe]

interesting points.  however, if spidey loses his strength, so should his opponent.  then he can just web them up ftw.  (i don't think anyone human has broken his webbing...maybe kingpin?)

the keep away point is interesting.  if he dodges a whole fight, according to most MMA judges the opponent would be awarded the win

as far as intelligence goes, i've always thought it should be rolled into fighting, and eliminated, but that's another topic

the strength shouldn't be eliminated altogether, but equalized. several of the 8F have ways to destroy the webbing with various weapons, I think. Also, for the intellect, that's another thing to bring up because the original Spidey only had webbing because of his intellect. In general, though, I agree that Intellect is a tricky thing to separate from a fighting ability, or even the ability to effectively use strength or energy. Really, it's impossible to quatify IQ in any definitive way  In Overpower, INT ratings seem to go to the more inventive/medical types... that topic is pretty deep in and of itself...

For just his Fighting abilities, he's had no real training, has he? I mean, he's basically a good fighter because of experience and his "natural" traits, right?

[breadmaster]

i believe you are correct. 

i think they've done stories where someone has trained him, and it's ended up doing more harm than good.  if he thinks, he hesitates.  when he just goes with it and trusts his spidey sense, he's unstoppable

[Palatinus]

i believe you are correct. 

i think they've done stories where someone has trained him, and it's ended up doing more harm than good.  if he thinks, he hesitates.  when he just goes with it and trusts his spidey sense, he's unstoppable

In that regard some of his power would definitely fall into the energy category.  His spider-sense seems to be an ethereal power that allows for enhanced defensive as well as offensive tactics.  So, really, he is a combination of his strength, energy, fighting, and intellect.  The problem in Overpower is that the best characters tend to have 8's but Spider-man's abilities are all over the place.  The best way to account for this without giving him a ridiculous grid would be with specials. I think they tried to something about this with his science whiz special.  His AE is good too.

[BigBadHarve]

I tend to think that Spider-Man's grid is actually pretty solid. Maybe he could have used a 6 intellect... but I'd leave his fighting at 7.

The point was made that his fighting prowess comes from his powers, not actual training. If Spidey had the level of training of Captain America or Wolverine, then yes, his spider-agility combined with the training would warrant an 8.

What Spider Man lacks, is 1 or two really killer specials that make him indispensable. And no, not yet another character with teammate avoid, but something that truly stands out as a must have card. His Marvel's card was a step in that direction, be he needs another.

Comparing to other 8 characters isn't necessarily accurate because Overpower is notorious for not getting it right.

IE: Bullseye - 7 fighting maybe, not 8.
Spawn - 8 energy? Hardly. You really put him in league with Dark Phoenix or Dr. Strange?
Superman - only a 7 strength? Really?
Batman - I believe his intellect should be 8 with a 7 fighting, others believe the other way around. Either way, he should have an 8.

Anyway, you get the point.

I don't mind using Spider-Man on teams, and often look for ways to fit him in. But I'm wacky that way. His specials, while lacking, aren't a total write off.

My two cents.

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

I tend to think that Spider-Man's grid is actually pretty solid. Maybe he could have used a 6 intellect... but I'd leave his fighting at 7.

The point was made that his fighting prowess comes from his powers, not actual training. If Spidey had the level of training of Captain America or Wolverine, then yes, his spider-agility combined with the training would warrant an 8.

What Spider Man lacks, is 1 or two really killer specials that make him indispensable. And no, not yet another character with teammate avoid, but something that truly stands out as a must have card. His Marvel's card was a step in that direction, be he needs another.

Comparing to other 8 characters isn't necessarily accurate because Overpower is notorious for not getting it right.

IE: Bullseye - 7 fighting maybe, not 8.
Spawn - 8 energy? Hardly. You really put him in league with Dark Phoenix or Dr. Strange?
Superman - only a 7 strength? Really?
Batman - I believe his intellect should be 8 with a 7 fighting, others believe the other way around. Either way, he should have an 8.

Anyway, you get the point.

I don't mind using Spider-Man on teams, and often look for ways to fit him in. But I'm wacky that way. His specials, while lacking, aren't a total write off.

My two cents.

-BBH

too true - about the Specials. I feel the same way about Gambit. I wish his grid had a 7, just because that'd make him that much more fun to use. But, when I play with him, he has such a wide array of attack specials, plus his dual-grid for an off-suit Teamwork card, that he's always bringing the heat. I feel like that's his role in the comics anyway.

Regarding Spider-Man and his Specials, I fell like he has pretty solid stuff. His MARVELS card can certainly be put to tremendous use. Also, in our circle, we made all AJ-coded Specials be Draw To Replace, mostly to make Batman, Nightwing, and Spider-Man a little more useful 

[Palatinus]

I didn't mean to suggest I thought Spider-man was done justice in Overpower.  He definitely needs more specials as BBH says.  Really, if you think about it, in the comics he is awesome enough to take on multiple super-powered people at once.  His AV does help represent this because incapacitating people is one way he deals with groups.  He could have maybe used an IA that made him feel more like his comic-book counter part.  Ultimately I agree that he shouldn't have an 8.  I like his variant and clone cards too.  A fun deck might be Spider-man, Scarlet Spider, Doppelganger, and maybe Venom.

[breadmaster]

on the batman point

i know it's taboo in overpower, but give the guy his dang double 8 (same with superman)

batman is right up there with luthor in intellect, and only the best can beat him in a fight

as for superman...can't he cool a supernova with his ice breath, and reignite a planet's core with his heat vision...i'd say that warrants a higher tier than iceman and human torch

[Bios]

What Spider Man lacks, is 1 or two really killer specials that make him indispensable. And no, not yet another character with teammate avoid, but something that truly stands out as a must have card.

Yeah, giving him a teammate avoid would be sooo stupid! A card like that definitelly won't fit a character like him!

[BigBadHarve]

Yeah, giving him a teammate avoid would be sooo stupid! A card like that definitelly won't fit a character like him!

Very nice card.

For the record, I don't think Spidey having a 1-9 avoid is a bad thing - it is definitely appropriate to him... but there are just too many characters with that type of card now. It's old hat. Back in the IQ set is when he should have gotten it, now it's overdone.

He needs something useful and unique. Before the Marvels I had an idea for a Spider-Man special that I think would have rocked:

"With Great Power..."  (I had it named before his Marvels card was known)

"Acts as a level 7 strength card. May be used to attack, or may be used to defend a teammate."

Unique and appropriate.

Personally, I think every character should have one card that is absolutely unique to them alone. Many already do, but if everyone else without a unique had one, that could create a really awesome variety in deckbuilding.

Ahh... what might have been, eh?

-BBH

[Nate Grey]

Thought I'd chime in with the Spidey talk. I also am in agreement that Spider-Man, being the flagship character that he is and one of the most popular superheroes around, should have been made way more playable. His lack of good specials has kept me and my friends from using him which really is a shame. As for his stats, ncannelora and BBH pretty much summed up my feelings for why Spidey is good with the 7 fighting. He can hold his own against 8 stat fighters mostly because of his fast reflexes and acrobatics, relying on his strength as well as his distracting chatter to gain the upper hand at times. I do agree with Bread that his Intellect should be bumped up to a 6 since he is a science whiz.

[steve2275]

just a visual of who were talking bout

[Bios]

Yeah, giving him a teammate avoid would be sooo stupid! A card like that definitelly won't fit a character like him!

Very nice card.

For the record, I don't think Spidey having a 1-9 avoid is a bad thing - it is definitely appropriate to him... but there are just too many characters with that type of card now. It's old hat. Back in the IQ set is when he should have gotten it, now it's overdone.

He needs something useful and unique. Before the Marvels I had an idea for a Spider-Man special that I think would have rocked:

"With Great Power..."  (I had it named before his Marvels card was known)

"Acts as a level 7 strength card. May be used to attack, or may be used to defend a teammate."

Unique and appropriate.

Personally, I think every character should have one card that is absolutely unique to them alone. Many already do, but if everyone else without a unique had one, that could create a really awesome variety in deckbuilding.

Ahh... what might have been, eh?

-BBH

I see your point and kinda agree with you. But that's in a "fill the gaps" context, where you keep adding more cards trying to compensate past mistakes.

Not discussing wich way is better, but my approach was more like a soft reboot, where I try to keep all that is good, or at least what was done right, while ignoring and replacing what was wrong.

In that context, Spider-Man got his own teammate avoid, while characters like Xaos lost theirs. My personal choice was allowing "teammate avoids" only to characters with a minimum 19 points sum grid, and most are over 21 points. Also, the characters with "teammate avoids" have opposite power grids. The idea was improving deck building options while not giving any advantages to teams with 2  "1-9 avoid"  characters.

And at last there are many cards to disrupt "1-9 avoid" effectiveness, like those bellow, thus encouraging variety.