Palatinus' OverPower Forum

Quote

  (162) If a card "cannot be defended" by a specific type of card then the opponent may not play any cards of that type during the defensive action of that attack (but cards which are already in play can be used). If a card "is not affected" by a specific type of card, then cards of that type may be used during the defensive action, but any cards already in play before the attack was made are considered not in play until the defensive action is resolved.

I figure that the NJ Specials like Pinpoint Laser cannot be moved with Vertigo and they can be played against an already-Charming Gambit. They cannot be moved to Brood Spawn and they can be used to attack an already-Acrobatic Beast. Etc.
TRUE or FALSE? (I'm about 100% sure this part is true)

But, what about Holographic Attackers (A3)?

It seems to me, that it means attacks made with power cards cannot be defended by Special Cards - defensively. So, if I play a 6F Power Card, it cannot be shifted with an AC, but it can be shifted with Vertigo (because it would have been in play already, so it's not being played defensively). Gambit's Charm would protect him from my attacks made with Power cards, provided it's already in play, as he wouldn't be able to play it defensively. Furthermore, if I play Rogue's Combination Punch (with a Power card), it couldn't be negated. Etc.
TRUE or FALSE? (I'm about 70% sure this one is true)

And so it seems that, regardless of whether or not the card says, "already in play" , the key seems to be whether the card says, "cannot be defended" or if it says, "is not affected". It seems as though this rule was made to better define the difference between the NJ and A3, (which both say "already in play"), but not so much cards like AP or BA (which restrict defense, but lack the wording, "already in play").

Please, please, give me some input. If anyone saw Holographic Attackers used in a Tournament, that would lay it to rest in my mind, certainly.

You are 100% correct about your first analysis - NJ cards are not affected by cards in play.

As for the Holographic attackers - the text is a misprint. There's an errata to it - it's supposed to read 'power cards are not affected by'  rather than 'may not be defended by'

It's an official errata. It effectively turns all of the Danger Room's power cards into NJ specials.

-BBH

Many of the meta-rules are useless and contradictory.

As for the Holographic attackers - I have a meta rule code-book from the tournament days, and there's a section marked as errata that falls outside of the meta rules. Among them is a ruling pertaining to - A3: The Phrase 'may not be defended with' should read 'are not affected'

Meta rule 162 also applies to cards in which the defense is limited. For example, JW cards cannot be defended by a special card, so Meta rule 162 applies. Meaning that you can't use an avoid to stop a JW, but you could use a special that's already in play IE: An EB card.

As I said, the meta rules are for the most part useless and confusing. Meta rule 162 is a great example. It says that "If a card "is not affected" by a specific type of card, then cards of that type may be used during the defensive action, but any cards already in play before the attack was made are considered not in play until the defensive action is resolved."

Therefore, if I use a card that states that it may not be affected by a card with the word 'teammate,' according to the meta rule I may still use a teammate avoid to stop the attack, but I wouldn't be able to use a card already in play that had the word teammate to do anything. That's dumb, as far as I'm concerned, because avoiding the attack is also affecting it. No card with the word teammate should be playable in any capacity against said card, either to avoid, absorb, shift, or remove.

I'll even go one step further and say that any card that locks down cards with the word 'teammate' (IE: Psycho Man's special) wouldn't affect such a card because it clearly states 'not affected by a card with the word 'teammate.'

I hope that helps.

-BBH

It seems to me that they somehow determined that Holographic Attackers was too strong, or something. I mean, make no mistake, it's way better if attacks made with Power Cards are not defendable with Special Cards (as opposed to becoming like a slightly better X-World). Having said that, I can't imagine it's broken. It doesn't seem to be, anyway. Plus, it would fit the name of the card better if it was taken as it's written.

Not defendable with special cards might be a little strong. Though, it would certainly give the team one hell of a boost. In either case, an errata would be necessary - you'd still have to remove the 'already in play' proviso in order for the text to make sense.

-BBH

"As I said, the meta rules are for the most part useless and confusing. Meta rule 162 is a great example. It says that "If a card "is not affected" by a specific type of card, then cards of that type may be used during the defensive action, but any cards already in play before the attack was made are considered not in play until the defensive action is resolved."

Therefore, if I use a card that states that it may not be affected by a card with the word 'teammate,' according to the meta rule I may still use a teammate avoid to stop the attack, but I wouldn't be able to use a card already in play that had the word teammate to do anything. That's dumb, as far as I'm concerned, because avoiding the attack is also affecting it. No card with the word teammate should be playable in any capacity against said card, either to avoid, absorb, shift, or remove."

Are there any other circumstances where a card isn't affected by "anything except special cards" already in play?

I think the wording is just clunky... and probably only applies to this particular kind of special (NJ).

It seems that what they mean is that you can still use specials to defend the card, just not specials that are already on the board. 

Example 1:  Savage Dragon - Dragon Brawl:  Acts as a level 5 fighting attack.  May not be affected by a card with the word "teammate" on it.

Example 2:  Angel - Avenging Angel:  Acts as a level 4 strength or intellect attack.  Attack is not affected by Special cards already in play.

These two specials don't seem to be the same.  Meta Rule 162 doesn't seem to relate much to example 1, where it seems to relate to example 2 much clearer.

Am I making sense?  The tag at the end of meta rule 162 specifically deals with circumstances where cards are on the board (in play).  The Angel special gets around in play effects.  But you could still defend the attack with a special card, because it only looks to be resolved at "in play" effects (which it can't be resolved by in play effects).

The Dragon special doesn't seem to look to this meta rule for a clear definition of what cards may not affect it because it doesn't look specifically at "in play" effects to resolve it.  It can't be defended or altered in any way by a card with the word teammate, which looks to cards in play, from hand, placed, etc.  That's much broader than the NJ special, and might need a different meta rule for a clear definition of what can't affect it.

I just read the meta rule a little different than BBH and wanted to throw my 6 cents in...  I won't argue with you, my man, that the meta rules are confusing, and I haven't read them exhaustively as you have... which is why I constantly ask the same questions over and over (I'm always confused).  But I'm trying to understand the complexity of the rules, and the "teammate" example given to show contradiction didn't seem to be the same as the Aspect effect that started the discussion.  They seemed like 2 entirely different cards/circumstances to me.  But I'm also the guy that thought using a teamwork at the top of the turn mean at the top of the battle.  I enjoy discussion, and hope I made a little bit of sense here.

u mean the danger room aspect?
powercards go past cards like EB after its played
and so do NJ
also passes AD AH CD CW
after they have been played
but not AV or AX
Example 1:  Savage Dragon - Dragon Brawl:  Acts as a level 5 fighting attack.  May not be affected by a card with the word "teammate" on it.
goes past AC http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1146.png   AD like http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/636.png AM? DE? HG KT LO MI MQ NO

http://overpower.ca/wiki/AY
If the Special indicates that the bonus is in response to defending a certain type of attack, then the card may only be played defensively, as an avoid and the bonus to the skill follows.

im sure someone said that to someone at sometime 

im sure jack or bbh can clear this up for all of us