Palatinus' OverPower Forum

hotobu, i KNOW he doesn't require a top flight card...that's why he's in a tier with other characters that are currently playable

anyways, all this magneto talk made me think of a quirky card for him.  powerful, but not automatically put into every build

magneto-electromagnetic distortion:  opponent may not place any cards next battle (opd)

for all of those who are students of theory:
I found all the articles in "Nuts & Bolts" series by Mark Rosewater on card set design very interesting and enlightening, here are the links in the order they should be read:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/21
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/78
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/132
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/184

perhaps these might assist some of you regarding ideas used for the new expansion?

Quote from: Hotobu on December 13, 2012, 11:04:21 PM

Currently Magneto is the perfect reserve. One big attack, and an AV special if you like to put in two.


Finally there's Marauders. Vertigo alone is a contender for best non OPD.

I dont know why anybody would use Magneto instead of Dr. Strange in reserve. Im not a fan of a reserve that cant play cards from reserve. I'd rather have Flash in reserve over Magneto. Flash's AI & JA are great cards for a reserve.

I thought vertigo was a OPD? I remember that rule change back when OP was still being played regularly.

Quote from: KObossy on December 16, 2012, 03:37:01 PM

Quote from: Hotobu on December 13, 2012, 11:04:21 PM

Currently Magneto is the perfect reserve. One big attack, and an AV special if you like to put in two.


Finally there's Marauders. Vertigo alone is a contender for best non OPD.

I dont know why anybody would use Magneto instead of Dr. Strange in reserve. Im not a fan of a reserve that cant play cards from reserve. I'd rather have Flash in reserve over Magneto. Flash's AI & JA are great cards for a reserve.

I thought vertigo was a OPD? I remember that rule change back when OP was still being played regularly.

I only put Mags in back thematically.

also, Vertigo was changed to Offense-only. although, I know BBH and his crew will play it as a OPD, still defensive... is that what you were remembering?

Vertigo is good, but not OPD good. If played offensively it should stay as non OPD. If you're going to play it defensively then I'll agree that that may make it a little too good, but still not quite OPD caliber.

i was looking at the touchy subject of negates

in my mind, energy and intellect are covered, while fighting and strength need a few

the tricky part it: who do you give a negate to in strength, that won't be substituted every time for the brute?

the one i came up with was scorpion.  he has a great opd, and 3 good-great attack cards of different icons (something beast can't provide)

as for fighting, there were actually 3 different characters i thought it would complement nicely

taskmaster: fantastic BQ, and tricky 4m attack
carnage: some nifty offense, but no current reason to use him
rapture: 3 different attack cards with different icons, and a good personal defense card (LO)

some may feel that 4 characters with new negates (5 if we end up using my doom card) is too much, and i'd like to hear any criticism.  i feel that more characters with negates will help to expand deck varitey

Quote from: breadmaster on December 18, 2012, 06:34:48 PM
i was looking at the touchy subject of negates

in my mind, energy and intellect are covered, while fighting and strength need a few

the tricky part it: who do you give a negate to in strength, that won't be substituted every time for the brute?

the one i came up with was scorpion.  he has a great opd, and 3 good-great attack cards of different icons (something beast can't provide)

as for fighting, there were actually 3 different characters i thought it would complement nicely

taskmaster: fantastic BQ, and tricky 4m attack
carnage: some nifty offense, but no current reason to use him
rapture: 3 different attack cards with different icons, and a good personal defense card (LO)

some may feel that 4 characters with new negates (5 if we end up using my doom card) is too much, and i'd like to hear any criticism.  i feel that more characters with negates will help to expand deck varitey

I think more negates would be great! I think it'd open up more creative decks (since a super-competitive deck pretty much requires one). Also, of those Fighters, I think Carnage could end up making the most of it.
He's only 18 points.
His DJ-Special might actually get some use (because he might finally be a target).
This would give him a defensive card to balance his 4 attacks (counting the AV-Special).

came up with 3 more ideas

reavers: acts as a level 2 intellect attack.  may make 2 additional attacks (my thinking on this, was that whenever i play reavers, i'm often stuck with a bunch of their attacks in hand.  it's also in pierce's main stat, slightly diminishing it's effectiveness there)

omega red: Opponent's team may not use cards with an Intellect icon for remainder of battle. (EY)

post:  Play during battle. For remainder of game, any Special played by Post or Post's teammates may not be Negated until this special is Negated. (MP)

I thought of another original Special. I think it has incredible potential, and so I think it fits the character's canon. Also, I think it will redeem his playability some:

Apocalypse:
The Future Is Now - Sort through Draw Pile and choose any Event card to play immediately. (Redraw for played Event.) (This Special may not be negated.) -OPD-

I put those two phrases in parentheses, because I'm not sure how much it should be nerf'd. My initial thought is that the first parenthetical should be a gimme. The second parenthetical, in my mind, is crazy-powerful... but also perfect for Apocalypse.

For that matter, give this one to Dr.Doom, too 

All great ideas.  Taskmaster needs something for sure.  If not the negate, give him some new mimic style cards.  Like Morph's OPD or Absorbing Man... maybe a OPD that lets him peek at opponents hand, and copy a special.  That might be new and interesting to see.  Maybe...

Quote from: ncannelora on December 21, 2012, 12:25:22 AM
I thought of another original Special. I think it has incredible potential, and so I think it fits the character's canon. Also, I think it will redeem his playability some:

Apocalypse:
The Future Is Now - Sort through Draw Pile and choose any Event card to play immediately. (Redraw for played Event.) (This Special may not be negated.) -OPD-

I put those two phrases in parentheses, because I'm not sure how much it should be nerf'd. My initial thought is that the first parenthetical should be a gimme. The second parenthetical, in my mind, is crazy-powerful... but also perfect for Apocalypse.

For that matter, give this one to Dr.Doom, too 

The biggest problem with this card isn't what's in parenthesis, it's that the special expires, and potentially very quickly. I can't think of any other special that does that. It should say Draw Pile or Dead Pile. I'd also suggest that after the event is played with this card the event should be removed from the game. Depending on draws there'd be the potential for an event too be played over 3 times which would be nuts. Beyond that I don't think redrawing for the event would be fair. With the way people chose events the player shouldn't get another card for something that's as potentially dangerous as an event. Also as annoying as negates are I don't really see any reason why this special should be immune to them, but either way is good I guess. Another thing that would make him better is to give him an inherent that makes all of his non OPD specials go into effect for the remainder of the game.

Quote from: Hotobu on December 22, 2012, 02:21:42 AM
The biggest problem with this card isn't what's in parenthesis, it's that the special expires, and potentially very quickly. I can't think of any other special that does that. It should say Draw Pile or Dead Pile. I'd also suggest that after the event is played with this card the event should be removed from the game. Depending on draws there'd be the potential for an event too be played over 3 times which would be nuts. Beyond that I don't think redrawing for the event would be fair. With the way people chose events the player shouldn't get another card for something that's as potentially dangerous as an event. Also as annoying as negates are I don't really see any reason why this special should be immune to them, but either way is good I guess. Another thing that would make him better is to give him an inherent that makes all of his non OPD specials go into effect for the remainder of the game.

I was well aware of the issue that this Special has an expiration (being the end of the Draw Pile), but there are ways around that. More importantly, the Special having a short window is also a balance to it's strength.

Ultimately, I figured this card to be a boost in getting a particular Event into play early. In my experience, it's not generally a problem to get Events earlier than later. I mean, if I had this card at the bottom of my Draw Pile, I wouldn't be too upset. It's function is to get Events into play, but that'd already be done... does that make sense?

Also, there are always DS cards 

As for the Event played 3 times... how is that? I can't see how this card would allow that (unless you CAN retrieve from Dead Characters Pile). Bishop's HD-Special allows that, but it gets reshuffled, not immediately played. I saw this card as a sort of reverse/opposite kind of card.

When it comes to the special expiring you're missing the point.

Quote from: ncannelora on December 21, 2012, 12:25:22 AM

Apocalypse:
The Future Is Now - Sort through Draw Pile and choose any Event card to play immediately. (Redraw for played Event.) (This Special may not be negated.) -OPD-

Let's say a player has 2 events. Those two events are played through the first two hands. Now this special is no longer good past the first 2 hands. I don't understand where you're getting the bottom of the draw pile from. The vast majority of other specials aren't that way. By changing it so that it can retrieve a played event this changes. Getting an event out early can obviously be nice, but so much so that it makes Apocalypse actually worth playing? ... meh. Chances are you're going to get the event eventually, and you've probably picked one that'll work in your favor anyway, so what's the big deal? Especially when there's the potential for having an expired card. Now make it such that an event can be played twice, or you can have it instantly, and it's far more attractive.

Quote from: Hotobu on December 22, 2012, 04:49:21 AM
When it comes to the special expiring you're missing the point.

Quote from: ncannelora on December 21, 2012, 12:25:22 AM

Apocalypse:
The Future Is Now - Sort through Draw Pile and choose any Event card to play immediately. (Redraw for played Event.) (This Special may not be negated.) -OPD-

Let's say a player has 2 events. Those two events are played through the first two hands. Now this special is no longer good past the first 2 hands. I don't understand where you're getting the bottom of the draw pile from. The vast majority of other specials aren't that way. By changing it so that it can retrieve a played event this changes. Getting an event out early can obviously be nice, but so much so that it makes Apocalypse actually worth playing? ... meh. Chances are you're going to get the event eventually, and you've probably picked one that'll work in your favor anyway, so what's the big deal? Especially when there's the potential for having an expired card. Now make it such that an event can be played twice, or you can have it instantly, and it's far more attractive.

I didn't miss anything. My point was worst-case-scenario. In the decks I've built where the Events are important, if I get them in hands 1 and 2, I'm usually in position to go FTW in hand 3 - that is my point about the downside of an "expiration" being offset by the benefit of getting to your Events earlier in the game.

You throw in the fact that you can custom choose - not just which, but when your Event can come in - you can have 7FTW hands. If I'm using Fatal Attractions and I've built for both the DBNO and Shockwave Events, and I get a hand that sets up one or the other, and then I can pull the correct Event into play? that's huge!

What about if I'm facing a team with 3 characters left and I have 4... I KO one of them, leaving them with 2, and then I search and pull my KO Event...!?

See, it's the ability to match your current hand to the Event you need to complement - that is it's biggest strength. Obviously, the card is useless once your Events have all come up - but again, if you have truly harsh Events, then getting to those earlier should be setting you up FTW anyway.

And again, how can I get the same Event played 3 times?

Quote from: ncannelora on December 22, 2012, 06:26:06 PM

Quote from: Hotobu on December 22, 2012, 04:49:21 AM
When it comes to the special expiring you're missing the point.

Quote from: ncannelora on December 21, 2012, 12:25:22 AM

Apocalypse:
The Future Is Now - Sort through Draw Pile and choose any Event card to play immediately. (Redraw for played Event.) (This Special may not be negated.) -OPD-

Let's say a player has 2 events. Those two events are played through the first two hands. Now this special is no longer good past the first 2 hands. I don't understand where you're getting the bottom of the draw pile from. The vast majority of other specials aren't that way. By changing it so that it can retrieve a played event this changes. Getting an event out early can obviously be nice, but so much so that it makes Apocalypse actually worth playing? ... meh. Chances are you're going to get the event eventually, and you've probably picked one that'll work in your favor anyway, so what's the big deal? Especially when there's the potential for having an expired card. Now make it such that an event can be played twice, or you can have it instantly, and it's far more attractive.

I didn't miss anything. My point was worst-case-scenario. In the decks I've built where the Events are important, if I get them in hands 1 and 2, I'm usually in position to go FTW in hand 3 - that is my point about the downside of an "expiration" being offset by the benefit of getting to your Events earlier in the game.

You throw in the fact that you can custom choose - not just which, but when your Event can come in - you can have 7FTW hands. If I'm using Fatal Attractions and I've built for both the DBNO and Shockwave Events, and I get a hand that sets up one or the other, and then I can pull the correct Event into play? that's huge!

What about if I'm facing a team with 3 characters left and I have 4... I KO one of them, leaving them with 2, and then I search and pull my KO Event...!?

See, it's the ability to match your current hand to the Event you need to complement - that is it's biggest strength. Obviously, the card is useless once your Events have all come up - but again, if you have truly harsh Events, then getting to those earlier should be setting you up FTW anyway.

And again, how can I get the same Event played 3 times?

I understood the nature of this card & the expiration risk. I dont think it needed to be explained. The 1st thing I thought was if I already went thru my event(s) in the early part of the game Im probably set up FTW anyways. So worrying I have a dead card in my deck isnt that big a deal. I love everything about this card except for it not being vulnerable to negates. Someone please put together the team that would play this card 3 times. Im curious to see how that team would fit together.