Palatinus' OverPower Forum

Wait,

You guys are saying that the discards from hand have to be playable by the hero targeted??

I always assumed that cards placed to other heroes were safe, but cards placed to that hero or ANY cards in hand would need to be discarded.

This would change power leech! ??

Quote from: BlueFire on April 17, 2014, 10:21:53 AM
Wait,

You guys are saying that the discards from hand have to be playable by the hero targeted??

I always assumed that cards placed to other heroes were safe, but cards placed to that hero or ANY cards in hand would need to be discarded.

This would change power leech! ??

It wouldn't change Leech, or something like Finite Power because both cards specifically affect the opponent. 'Opponent must discard'

Whereas White Tiger states 'Target Must discard' which implies that only the character hit would be affected and if nothing in hand is usable by said character it doesn't have to be dropped.

It should be noted that Any Heroes and Activators are usable by the targeted character and would have to be pitched.

I was under the impression that target hero and target opponent were treated the same.

It is certainly confusing because of the errata of the leech not making the text play as written. 

I would love to hear other opinions, I can see your point BBH, but I'm fairly sure any cards in hand were fair game back in the day.

Unlike some of the other rules situations discussed, this will actually happen a lot.  We need to all come to an agreement.

no, the target's placed cards are the only ones that can be discarded, but ANY in hand are fair game

from the tournament guide:

This Special acts as a # level attack of a specified power type. Additionally, if the attack succeeds, target hero must discard two playable cards. Cards may either be placed or in the hand. Only placed cards on the targeted character are affected for discarding, not placed cards on other characters, although cards in the hand can be for any character. If there are no applicable cards in the hand or placed, ignore this effect.

I see that is how it is on the wiki as well.  I assume it is just copied from the guide to playing specials.

Case closed I believe.

Well okay then. Then I guess in the video it was misplayed.

Indeed, it was a misplay if going by the tournament guide book and not what's printed on the card.

This interpretation from the guide book brings up some interesting points however.

Clearly "applicable" pertains to "playable," therefore I then believe it can be construed that any placed card on the "target hero" which cannot be played isn't an available choice for discard.

Plus, any cards in hand being used for a bluff also cannot be discarded.  Which of course may open up a line of thought based around possible outs versus what's currently in play at the time.

I feel in this case the tournament guide is based more on an opinion of mechanic than anything else.  I know some citations in that guide are suspect at best, with this evidently, being yet another one.

Quote from: Hot Rod on April 17, 2014, 11:17:57 PM
Indeed, it was a misplay if going by the tournament guide book and not what's printed on the card.

This interpretation from the guide book brings up some interesting points however.

Clearly "applicable" pertains to "playable," therefore I then believe it can be construed that any placed card on the "target hero" which cannot be played isn't an available choice for discard.

Plus, any cards in hand being used for a bluff also cannot be discarded.  Which of course may open up a line of thought based around possible outs versus what's currently in play at the time.

I feel in this case the tournament guide is based more on an opinion of mechanic than anything else.  I know some citations in that guide are suspect at best, with this evidently, being yet another one.

Well, if we're going by the rule as stated in the rulebook - then any card in hand is fair game, and you can dump dead cards.

Quote from: BigBadHarve on April 18, 2014, 02:13:57 AM
Well, if we're going by the rule as stated in the rulebook - then any card in hand is fair game, and you can dump dead cards.

The rulebook or the tournament guide?

What I take away from this: the tournament guide is implying that "target character" is not singular in it's effect, and the rules regarding what's playable and what's not, start becoming exploitable with this interpretation.

If you have 2 unplayable teamworks in your hand, and a draw 3, then the teamworks "could" become playable.  Of course it's entirely possible that you don't have any power cards usable with those teamworks left in your deck.

Also a character with a Python Hold on them without the possibility of a negate or something else (Lethal Tester), would therefore be immune to the discard effect.

you can't depend on a random draw to keep unusables

'Specials which can make other cards (Specials, Power cards, etc.) usable allow you to keep those unusable cards in hand during the discard phase. The Special to make them usable must be available (e.g., Placed, in Hand, available through a specific draw - not through a random draw).'

Quote from: breadmaster on April 18, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
you can't depend on a random draw to keep unusables

'Specials which can make other cards (Specials, Power cards, etc.) usable allow you to keep those unusable cards in hand during the discard phase. The Special to make them usable must be available (e.g., Placed, in Hand, available through a specific draw - not through a random draw).'

That's good to hear, though of course we still have Power Hungry, and Power Port that can create the situation.