Palatinus' OverPower Forum

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 03:30:18 AMfinally a use for unstoppable force

My feelings exactly.

I was between the inherent as it's currently written, and "+1 to Defense for each "Magic Helm" or "Unstoppable Force" in play."  I like to think we can all agree that a 30 hits to KO, +5 defense Juggernaut would be....well....an unstoppable force?  In terms of comic realism, I think it would be 100% appropriate, since Jugg's power is about building momentum, but so would a card on Wolverine that said "after every battle, before calculating venture, if Wolverine is not KO'd, discard all hits from current battle"....it's 4:30AM and it may sound like I'm arguing with myself but I just want to explain the thought process in case everyone disagrees with me.

Quote from: drdeath25 on December 12, 2014, 03:19:36 AMI agree with your reasoning on the iron spider, but it would be soooo much more fun to make it the opposite and let him use iron man non opd's and spiderman opds. Iron Mans best card is arguably his LO, and With Great Power is such a fun card to use. Just in terms of fun factor I vote to change him that way.

I just wasn't comfortable with giving him so much duplication...2x AA alone is a little bit broken, but you've got 2 AE and 2 AG....also, I was just looking up cards on Jack's site - is WGP non-OPD?



I agree that the LO should be in, but for the others I might need some more votes.

Thanks again for the great feedback from everyone, both the constructive stuff and the positive stuff...I don't usually spend time to respond directly to positive feedback, because it feels self-indulgent but without it I wouldn't spend so much fee time on this stuff.. 

Quote from: teesaw on December 12, 2014, 05:08:07 AM

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 03:30:18 AMfinally a use for unstoppable force

My feelings exactly.

I was between the inherent as it's currently written, and "+1 to Defense for each "Magic Helm" or "Unstoppable Force" in play."  I like to think we can all agree that a 30 hits to KO, +5 defense Juggernaut would be....well....an unstoppable force?  In terms of comic realism, I think it would be 100% appropriate, since Jugg's power is about building momentum

i never considered the possibility +5 defense part
awesome

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 07:25:51 AM

Quote from: teesaw on December 12, 2014, 05:08:07 AM

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 03:30:18 AMfinally a use for unstoppable force

My feelings exactly.

I was between the inherent as it's currently written, and "+1 to Defense for each "Magic Helm" or "Unstoppable Force" in play."  I like to think we can all agree that a 30 hits to KO, +5 defense Juggernaut would be....well....an unstoppable force?  In terms of comic realism, I think it would be 100% appropriate, since Jugg's power is about building momentum

i never considered the possibility +5 defense part
awesome

I shouldn't have been message boarding so early.

What I meant to conclude, which I clearly didn't, was that the wording of "+1 for each," to me, would be completely broken, and I didn't do it that way, for that reason...Steve and others, what are your thoughts?  I'm 99% sure it breaks the game...

Forgetting about draw power or anything extra-tricky, I feel like it puts the opponent in a situation where you're 40 cards into your deck, you've got 2 heroes up agains juggs, and you know for a fact that you can't win the game because he's +4 defense heading into the PP.

Greatest idea ever, or game breaking??

theres still negates and duping to consider
you are right however that the card doesnt say 'for each"

and magic helm still makes it +4 for that battle (are you say that each of those specials is a +2)?
plus the fact that you can both of their AR specials
both of their additional attack specials
three different avoid specials
and two different discard placed universe cards specials
is probably plenty

but if you do ko him all future COLOSSUS and JUGGERNAUT specials go to the dead pile
s..........

Dammit - I had a very long response written out, and I closed the freaking window.

Highlights:
- With card design, it's better to take 10 steps forward, cross the line, and need to take a step back, then take five steps forward because you don't know where the line is.

- I thought about this card the entire subway ride.
- I'm going to take another look at the specials overlap between Juggs and Colossus...I'm also going to review Storm/Morlocks and some of my others to see what I should adopt as a general practice.
- I think the "+1 for each" version might be worth a shot.  My reasoning is that the formula for making a "broken" Jugg:Colossus deck is a bit crazy - if you included 6 dupes of the Unstoppable Force, and another 6 deck searching cards from your teammates and your battlesite...a don't discard dupes event ~ it's eating up a lot of room in your deck.  Your options are then (1) sacrifice usable cards or (2) build to 70 - if you build that big, that's another problem entirely.
- Another idea for J:PR's inherent is to make him also count as a dupe of Colossus...it somewhat nerfs the card sharing piece, which I think would be a huge negative.  (if that's the route i go, I'll be making the same change for Cap-Snap and Cap-Carol (but not Spidey-Iron).)

- Also - Iron spidey is getting an upgrade to his inherent.  Iron Man OPD's AND "Armored AssaultAvenger"

I won't be spending much more time on overpower at work today, but I may tweak these over the weekend...I'm also thinking about another new hero and special release for early next week....thanks again for the help with this.

Side note, does it make me a child that I refuse to use the phrase "big deck" in my posts? 
"He's got a huge deck"
"Wow!  that's the biggest deck I've ever seen!"  "Oh yeah?  You should see my brother's.." 
"If my deck was that big, I'd never get to the PP."
...the list goes on.

i dont think this juggernaut should be able to play the foxfire special as her and peter never met
i say let the effect add up
6 specials1 special (not to mention all other negate specials (8 of AO)
and theres your counters to the effect
let him play the colossus cards as written but not have colossus also be on the same team as your card (since theyre the same person)
you could always make it +1 and let it still add up
and why not let him play his OPD's? (i mean if iron fist can play any hfh specials why not pr play any colossus specials?)
and be child-ike


and who is mrs.marvel you speak of? (i mean she was mrs. marvel for a long time)
and dont you mean armored avenger?

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMi dont think this juggernaut should be able to play the foxfire special as her and peter never met

I don't disagree, but I'm okay with this inaccuracy.

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMi say let the effect add up.  you could always make it +1 and let it still add up

That's where it's headed

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMlet him play the colossus cards as written but not have colossus also be on the same team as your card (since theyre the same person)

I'm leaning that way - I just need to figure out a way to say it on the card.  Three lines of text in the inherent looks TERRIBLE...It also needs to effect battlesites - This card should not be played if colossus is on the battlesite.

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMand why not let him play his OPD's? (i mean if iron fist can play any hfh specials why not pr play any colossus specials?)

I think giving him the colossus OPD's tips the scale too much. 

Also, to clarify, the original Iron Fist was designed as a clone (a la Callisto, Crystal, Black King, etc., not to have his own specials) and he wasn't going to have his own specials.  On second thought, I am probably going to do a different fighting-based H4H clone, and do Iron Fist as a stand-alone character.

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMand who is mrs.marvel you speak of? (i mean she was mrs. marvel for a long time)

Blond, big cans, thick thighs, black bodysuit with a yellow S-lightning bolt across the body?

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMand dont you mean armored avenger?

Yes.

Quote from: teesaw on December 12, 2014, 11:14:39 AM

Quote from: steve2275 on December 12, 2014, 10:09:23 AMi dont think this juggernaut should be able to play the foxfire special as her and peter never met

I don't disagree, but I'm okay with this inaccuracy.

as am i

as for iron fist
could just have him play his OPD from hfh

and im suprised your nick doest have agent of shield as part of his i a
since he was once and i dont think giving him 3 from reserve is overdoing it.......doesnt bother hawkeye
heck throw in war hero as well to give him combo from reserve ability

any who like i said 3 would be plenty

Two more variants that have been sitting around my computer, and it never dawned on me that I'd never posted these.  The first came as a response to a suggestion from justa to give Iron Fist his own card and specials (you can see that here), and the other came from a much more grand idea for a series of hero cards that I ultimately decided weren't necessary. 


Updated OP as well.

most xcellent

for Juggernaut i would keep it easy...

Magic Helm + Unstoppable Force are just options, some people still may not want to run them in deck or only 1 copy still.

so Magic Helm would last for duration of 1 battle for a +2 defense, his card only boosts against intellect attacks for another +3

its still balanced and easy to get around, people can still attack other people if he loads up on defense. not many people run intellect decks.

if the innate bonus stacks and lasts duration of card... i would only give a +1 defense bonus for Unstoppable Force

you get +2 hits to KO, and +1 defense for remainder of game... good for a special.

its just about giving his weaker specials a slight nudge of power so they can be an option if you 'want'

MW gives someone +1, but DQ is self only, so its a fair trade i think.

i would keep the clone option. for easier text i would just say +1 defense bonus, it can stack, magic helm only lasts 1 turn, unstoppable force lasts until negated.

to give magic helm a different boost... why not give +1 to attack and defense when that is active?

that would give them more diversity... DQ is for defense, CM can be for both.


i would keep him as is, he is powerful enough already, nobody else has (OP) code, its not one per deck, if you want Spider Man Iron to defend teammates, run Scarlet Spider in deck and use

with him already, most likely people are going to run clone, with that many specials double hitting... would be too much
it would also cause a problem in the amount of text in the lines
one character able to generate +1's from 2 different cards? OP and LO, use the card and get a card back. too much advantage

juggernautwise
its just for defense
not offense

House of Magnus is interesting.  Not really any attack value above 6 other than power cards, and at a high cost to team grid total.  But with the array of Specials available, maybe worth it.
I like the picture for White Tiger, but I don't care for the grid - no way she should be an 8F (IMO).  Maybe equal or slightly less than Daredevil & Black Panther.  Maybe even a Black Panther connection, since the Panther legacy is a part of her heritage (from what I've read).  (I see no way of mixing both sets of specials that makes any sense, though.)  All depends on how you see the character.  Either way, its kind of a cheap way out for adding the character.  I admit to having done the same.

could you do an Iron Man / Iceman hybrid?









maybe a combination... Iceman wearing the Iron Man suit and ice surrounds it further encasing the suit as if it was one with Iceman?

some inspirational ideas to work with, maybe call him Blue Steel?

7-3-4-7 (21) May Play Any "Iceman" Non-One-Per-Deck special cards. May Play Any "Iron Man" One-Per-Deck special cards.

I know its been a while for this thread, but I was rereading in my spare time & had an inspiration.  For Bobby Drake wearing the suit, no way is the intellect 7.  The connection with Jarvis through the suit would increase Booby's innate, but not that much.  Also the suit is the primary source of strength, not the wearer.  So I can see nothing less than a 6 in that category.  That leaves you at about a 7 3 6 5 (21).  A great character idea.