Palatinus' OverPower Forum

i'm beginning to side with ncann on this one.  this card is starting to irk me

i've had games from both sides, and the card is too powerful imo (and yes, i know why it was created)

one of the issues, is that if you pair it with entropy event (no activators).  that's more or less 2 guaranteed winning hands.  throw in a leech, and fuggetaboutit

so how bout this

dow: opponent's battlesite hits to ko is reduced by 26 for remainder of game. this card may not be negated.

i choose 26, because of the hard to defend 3 specials.  this more or less forces the opponent to defend the site with anything over 3

thoughts?

Quote from: breadmaster on March 29, 2012, 07:13:07 PM
i'm beginning to side with ncann on this one.  this card is starting to irk me

i've had games from both sides, and the card is too powerful imo (and yes, i know why it was created)

one of the issues, is that if you pair it with entropy event (no activators).  that's more or less 2 guaranteed winning hands.  throw in a leech, and fuggetaboutit

so how bout this

dow: opponent's battlesite hits to ko is reduced by 26 for remainder of game. this card may not be negated.

i choose 26, because of the hard to defend 3 specials.  this more or less forces the opponent to defend the site with anything over 3

thoughts?

That would be another great option to help it!

Like I've always said, I'm a fan of having a powerful Any Character card to balance them w/Battlesite potential. I also love the idea of said Any Character having the purpose of voiding your opponent's Battlesite. I just don't like the fact that it's so guaranteed!

So, with this type of revision, it's still a guaranteed turn (the epitome of safe, since there's no defensive action to take), but it's not a guaranteed effect (because it won't affect Venture directly, and you still have more work to do in order to take down the battlesite.

Also, this seems like it's maintaining the POWERFUL nature of Galactus - in that it instantly cripples a location, putting it directly and immediately into a critical status, so that's cool too 

I think the fact that battlesite decks  are winning the tournaments speaks for itself. The 'no activator' event is balanced by the 'no anyhero' event so thats a wash.  And someone could always bet big with dow and their opponent happens to not have activators that hand destroying the strategy. Like any other card if it comes at the right point in the game it can screw you but such is life...

I always thought anyheroes needed one more 'screw battlesite specials'. Something like target battlesite must discard (1,2,3, whatever) random placed cards.

i defenitely get where you're coming from, but it's hardly like any other card

if any heroes get it early, it's pretty much a guaranteed win (i know it's not 100%, but it's up there)

who wants to play a game where the majority of games are decided by one card...that's not interesting to me

and yes, no activator balances no anyhero event.  my point was, there's no balance for dow (as i suggested to bios in jest,  darkseid: opponent cannot play any heroes until this card is attacked by 4 anyheroes...shudder). 

Quote from: breadmaster on March 30, 2012, 12:16:07 AM
and yes, no activator balances no anyhero event.  my point was, there's no balance for dow (as i suggested to bios in jest,  darkseid: opponent cannot play any heroes until this card is attacked by 4 anyheroes...shudder). 

I agree with this sentiment, save for the fact that of the, what, 18(?), different types of any character specials only 8 are actual attacks, and of those 8, 2 are numerical.  I'm not saying that DoW is too broken.  I've played many card games where if that 1 card hits the table, you've just (lost/won.)  The thing is, there are cards that deal with DoW.  If the card bothers you THAT much, play with the characters who can remove it from existance... (your GL/KL specials) and don't try to play them FROM the battle site.  Try new characters out.  Isn't the lack of originallity in teams one of the biggest complaints folks have on these forums, anyway?

Quote from: Nostalgic on March 29, 2012, 10:28:34 PM
I always thought anyheroes needed one more 'screw battlesite specials'. Something like target battlesite must discard (1,2,3, whatever) random placed cards.

I like this concept. It would draw balance to those that are relying on dow to win.

Also I am used to Marvel popping out a Powerhouse. When I played HeroClix, they created a "Cosmic Spiderman." Was he awesome? Yeah! Was he broken? Definitely! Did people abuse the crap out of it? Yes! Cosmic Spiderman could: 1) run up and hit you then run away so far you couldnt touch him on your turn 2) run up and shoot you from a range that you couldnt reach on your turn 3) (broken) he could shoot you through a wall  and you couldnt even get a cover save or anything from it.....IMO DoW is essentially the same format for Marvel....after they have released a game for awhile that DC, Darkhorse, etc have joined in on they always seem to "have to have" the powerhouse piece and IMO that is what has happened here. Its a good card and yes it is beatable, but it is a little broken....again, that is my opinion

i HAVE been trying lots of different characters out.

that's what led me to this idea for dow.  if i want to try out a new character, basically i look at what they do well, then i build the other 3 characters around them. 

the problem with this, is that whenever you stray from the top tier characters, you leave the team vulnerable.  you make up with this with a defensive battlesite usually.  if i get dow'd early, the game is over, cause my characters will fall like dominoes...not fun.  so then i build a more resiliant team...but now it looks like 90% of the other competetive teams...also not fun

my point is, dow is not a 'fun' card.  yes, i can build teams that have strategies against it (i did for the tourney i won in toronto), but the vast majority of games i play are for fun.  also, i've won as many games with, as i've lost against dow, and it's just as empty from the other side of the table

so the idea behind the new card is that it maintains the POWER of the original, without being so un-interactive. once played, your site is still active (assuming it hasn't taken 4 points of damage prior), but now you MUST defend it at all costs, or risk losing all your activators instead of 4

I admit that I do like the concept behind the rewritten DoW. Maybe I just haven't played with or against it enough to understand why folks feel it needs to change.  I DO remember when Power Leech was that damned awful though...

Quote from: Demacus on March 30, 2012, 05:21:14 PM
I admit that I do like the concept behind the rewritten DoW. Maybe I just haven't played with or against it enough to understand why folks feel it needs to change.  I DO remember when Power Leech was that damned awful though...

LOL....good ole leechy.....I used to hate him most of all!

Perhaps a DoW that requires your opponent to discard a card from their hand for the next 4 activators played would work...

That is almost heavier then the current DoW.  lol

DoW would have been great if it were "Target Battlesite must discard 4 Placed cards chosen at random. This special may not be negated." It would get it out of the way quickly instead of giving a player playing DoW a large card advantage. With any luck, the four specials could be really crappy ones used to pad a deck in defence of DoW* (I used DoW* to note the one I propose) opening up larger battlesite deck sizes (possibly).

I wouldn't mind adding a possible way to defend it (since the "remainder of game" clause is ruled out) with "Can only be defended by a power card with icon of DoW*'s choice, cannot be defended with a Multipower Power card.". It would be akin to Leech in a way where you would pick a really random choice of icon hoping your opponent doesn't have filler power cards for it.

-

BBH also proposed a change to DoW. The mechanics would be the same, but you could use up to 4 Activators to attack DoW so you could get it out of the way quickly instead of burning turns.

Quote from: Demacus on April 01, 2012, 06:26:31 PM
That is almost heavier then the current DoW.  lol

I agree with this statement. Essentially you'd lose double the cards and players would probably complain more as opposed to the original DoW.

i assume what he meant was, you still play activators as normal (exchanging them for attacks or defense), but must discard 1 card from your hand which acts as the 'attack' on dow.

this is an interesting compromise as well.  it lets you keep using activators (not locking down turns) and lets you discard presumably less versatile cards from your hand

Quote from: breadmaster on April 02, 2012, 04:17:14 PM
i assume what he meant was, you still play activators as normal (exchanging them for attacks or defense), but must discard 1 card from your hand which acts as the 'attack' on dow.

this is an interesting compromise as well.  it lets you keep using activators (not locking down turns) and lets you discard presumably less versatile cards from your hand

This is exactly what I'm assuming he meant as well, but in the instance of DoW being so overpowered in the instance of gaining hand advantage, tossing a discard for 4 attacks, even if it is a "less useful" card is still way worse then simply throwing 4 cards at DoW to get rid of it.  As it stands now, you have a disadvantage of 4 cards before your activators become useful again, so your net hand loss is anywhere from 1-4 card(s) per hand until DoW is gone.  With the discard errata, you stand to lose 2-8 cards per hand until DoW is gone.  Yes you might be getting use of the activators, but at the cost of the rest of your hand, which makes DoW that much more powerful for a "venture for the win" scenario.  Even if my opponent draws 3 cards and keeps them all, he's looking to lose 2 cards per activator, which essentially cuts his hand in half.  It's just not a "better" revision.