Palatinus' OverPower Forum

I must agree on the 7E for Supes, though I am strongly for an 8S.  AS far as the Iceman thing goes, Bobby doesn't make/manipulate ice, he IS ice. I believe it was White Queen who told him he wasn't using his full potential, because if he really unleashed his full potential, he would be nigh-immortal.  Not because he absorbed energy from a yellow sun, but because the only reason he shows signs of mortality is because he THINKS he should.  As seen in AoA, he can breakdown his molecules and those around him to effectively teleport anywhere he wants to travel in a water-vapor form.  If shattered in his ice-form, he can pull himself back together, ala T-1000, Hydro-man, or Sandman.  He "creates" ice all around him simply by freezing the water in the surrounding air, and it's not even a strain to do so. I would hardly put Superman's heat vision/x-ray vision/superspeed on the same level.  As far as him rating a higher then 4I, just cause your parents are brilliant scientists, doesn't automatically make you one.  He wasn't raised by his scientific parents, he was raised by a couple of poor farmers in Kansas.  Yes, genetically speaking, he is probablly potentially far superiour intellectually, but the actuality of it, is he's got no better real intelligence then a middle American high school graduate.  That's not calling him stupid, but I certainly would not put his intellect within 2 points of Bruce Wayne's (who should also have been an 8I).  The inherents are great, both of them.  The specials are killer and completely worthy of him.  I would stat him at 7-3-8-4 though (maybe 7-3-8-5.)

'hes got no better real intelligence then a middle American high school graduate'

please

I stand corrected by this obviously, well thought argument.

so you're not going to back off that he's more intelligent than your average american high school graduate?

do i have to post examples of scans disproving it?

or how bout i direct you to all star superman, where he performs numerous scientific feats (you know, since you reference an alternate reality with iceman)

or, you could just retract that statement, and not be a dick about it

Examples would be nice, since I posted my opinion with examples of why I have the opinions I posted.  Don't think I was being a dick about it, since I don't feel that "Please" is a true rebuttal to something you feel so strongly as to call me a dick about.  You don't have to take my opinion of Big Blue personally.  Having different thoughts and expressing them is called communication, but if I'm a dick for thinking that Superman is hardly worthy of a lvl 6I, then I'm a dick.

'I stand corrected by this obviously, well thought argument.'

that's not the statement of a dick?

either you are grossly overestimating the intelligence of the american high school graduate, or selling supes short.  either way, if you're not retracting, i'm not bothering making any further arguments, cause that proves you won't concede a point

I will be glad to concede the point based on some kind of evidence showing me the error of my ways.  I'm not saying my statement wasn't dickish, but as a response to the rebuttal of "Please," I didn't feel I had to defend my point of view further.  It seemed to me that you simply took offense because you like Superman more then I do.  That's great.  You are welcome to idolize who you want, but if you aren't willing to defend your beliefs, then you shouldn't make statements that seem to invite further discussion.  If you would show me a time, alternate reality or not, where Superman actually had a scientific level of intelligence, I would be glad to retract my statement that he's not deserving of a 6I stat.  If you are simply going to continue to berate me for giving just as lame of a response as you did, then yes, I would be glad to end this back and forth.  I'm not attacking you personally, for I do not know you.  I'm not attacking your chosen hero, simply stating why I feel what I feel.  If you are not open to general debate, and are simply looking for people to agree with you all the time about everything you post, then you should find a slightly less public forum.

my idol?  i like superman as a character, but he's not in my top 50.  why try to use that as an insult?

'please' was in response to a statement that is clearly wrong.  ignoring science, the man is an award-winning journalist for one of the top newspapers in the world. 

as far as 'debating' you...no thanks.  i've seen how you've ended 'debates' that you have failed to back up poorly thought out points (dow topic) 

'If you still don't see what I'm getting at, then you don't see what I'm getting at.'

So nothing about defending Superman?  Got it.

As far as the DoW thread, I'd explained my position 3 times.  If you don't see where I'm coming from, and re-reading my explanation doesn't help, then you just won't see what I was trying to say.  Simple fact, nothing more.  It wasn't a shot at your or anyone else, simply a statement of fact.

Quote from: breadmaster on April 17, 2012, 06:44:27 PM
...
or how bout i direct you to all star superman, where he performs numerous scientific feats (you know, since you reference an alternate reality with iceman)
...

I'm not too certain how alternate timelines and universes work in DC (or really, other areas of Marvel), but I did want to clarify that in AoA, everyone had the same powers. The only difference is that Magneto trained the X-Men differently (except Rogue and X-Man/Cable, but I could come back to them if prompted). So, while AoA was the first place we saw a glimpse of Iceman's true potential, it's certainly not the only place he has it.

Along those same lines, then, Superman may only have received a H.S. diploma as his only formal education (that may not even be true, I just don't know), but I'm the first person to chime-in for the defense of the under-educated community (never having obtained any higher level education, myself). I'd say that if this "All Star Superman" is the same Kal-el from normal continuity, but with a different background in upbringing or education, and he showed a 6i, then go for it!

Quote from: ncannelora on April 17, 2012, 07:55:10 PM
Along those same lines, then, Superman may only have received a H.S. diploma as his only formal education (that may not even be true, I just don't know), but I'm the first person to chime-in for the defense of the under-educated community (never having obtained any higher level education, myself). I'd say that if this "All Star Superman" is the same Kal-el from normal continuity, but with a different background in upbringing or education, and he showed a 6i, then go for it!

I agree. I think low end all star superman would get a 5i but I truly agree with the 6i.  Just my opinion.

Additional Ncann, I like your layout of the timeline thought process  - well put.

My Superman.
E-7
F-3
S-8
I-4
(At 22 points he's expensive, but still reasonable.)

Inherent: May only be KO'd by Dead is Dead. Strength power cards are -2 vs characters with strength 6/5(?) or less.

I like BM's specials. I'd add a x-ray vision that requires opponent to play open handed.

Truth, Justice, and the American Way... (Draw 3) 

As for the intellect I think we need to define the terms. I believe someone did this in another thread relating to each energy level a character might have. I don't know what the game designers intended, but here is my take on the first few intervals of intellect.

1- Rhino/ Blob/ Sentinels (high school drop-out, robot following simple prewritten program, or simply stuuuupid.)
2- Venom/ Marauders/ Quicksilver (regular guy/ high school graduate...perhaps lacking intellectual curiosity)
3- Thing/ Deadpool/Serpent Society (unique /uncommon/ special knowledge: flying jets/ college graduate/ intellectually curious person versed in world affairs)
4- Wolverine/ Superman/ ...   (more specialized or extensive knowledge through long life/ knowledge of alien tech/ very complex reasoning/ problem solving around whatever the specialty is...)
5- Spiderman/ Cyclops/.... (All of the above plus genius intelligence or even more extensive knowledge in various fields/ perhaps leadership ability and team coordination/inspiration is in there(?))

For comparison most of us would have stats something like this:
E-1 (uuum...yea.)
F-2 (maybe a 3/4 if your part of 'fight club'  )
S-3 (probably a 2 for the ladies)
I-2 (or ¾ depending on what mensa says  )

I would have fleshed out the above intellect levels more but its late and I'm too tired.  Perhaps later.

Quote from: Nostalgic on April 18, 2012, 01:58:33 AM
F-2 (maybe a 3/4 if your part of 'fight club'  )

You just broke rule #1 

Quote from: ncannelora on April 17, 2012, 07:55:10 PM
Along those same lines, then, Superman may only have received a H.S. diploma as his only formal education (that may not even be true, I just don't know), but I'm the first person to chime-in for the defense of the under-educated community (never having obtained any higher level education, myself). I'd say that if this "All Star Superman" is the same Kal-el from normal continuity, but with a different background in upbringing or education, and he showed a 6i, then go for it!

I wholeheartedly agree, I simply have no knowledge of such a Superman.  If there are stories of him truly deserving a 6I, awesome.  It's just that the Superman I've seen over the years is more prone to simply diverting the explosives instead of disarming them.  Hence my opinion. 

I'm with you Nostalgic.  Stats seem to ring true, in my opinion, with some much better specials then in his current pool.

Personally, I would take his existing cards and re-print them with more useful abilities.  Heat vision as a 7E. Defying the Earth's Gravity as a Numerical Avoid, or even a true avoid.  Last Son of Krypton is fine.  The Man Beyond Tomorrow is fine. Earth's Greatest Hero is fine.  Make Man of Steel game lasting instead of battle lasting.  Give him a BG and call it Leader of the JLA.

I usually don't like to chime in in forums when people are arguing but I would like to back up my reasoning for Superman to have a decent Intellect stat.

He has an Eidetic Memory. He has been shown to have flawless, total recall of everything he has ever seen, read, or heard.
He is often shown as being fluent in many of Earth's languages.
His memory was so great, that when he created a statue of his parents it was accurate right down to their finger-prints.
He builds Superman Robots.

Just some of my thoughts. If need be I can go digging through my comic box and start quoting pages and issue numbers