Image Overpower

[fennshysa]

I've been having a hard time getting any new cards going very well. With OP3 and Justas really nice cards that they've been putting out lately I'm having a hard time coming up with anything different. So i think that my next project will be something that I don't think I've ever seen a whole set done of.
I'm going to try and complete a whole set of "classic Image" characters. I've actually got a couple character sets close to done but i'm having a terrible time creating a frame for the cards that looks good. I want to fill in the missing Cyberforce, Gen13 and WildCAT characters, add some villains and some of the other early characters that got left out (even some of Liefield's)

As a starting point I compiled a list of all Image Special card by code. That was pretty interesting. (I'll post it below)
A question for anyone familiar with Keowan's Pitt and Cyberforce's Impact. What would you rate them at in Strength?
Here is the first tentative list of characters. Suggestions? Keep in mind if you suggest an more obscure character I'll need help finding images.

Ballistic
Burnout
Cyberdata
Cyblade
Deathblow
Freefall
Heatwave
Helspont
Impact
International Operations
Lara Croft
Maul
Maxx
Mr Majestic
Pitt
Prophet
Rainmaker
Spartan
Stormwatch
Supreme
Voodoo
Warblade
Wetworks
Youngblood

Codes:
AA 3
AB 1
AD 5
AE 3
AG 3
AJ 1
AR 4
AS 2
AZ 1
BA 1
BK 1
BO 1
BP 1
CM 1
CU 2
CW 1
CZ 2
DB 1
DY 1
DZ 1
EA 2
EG 2
EK 1
EM 1
EX 1
FD 1
FE 1
GB 1
GJ 1
HF 2
HH 1
HY 1
JA 1
JC 2
JM 1
JU 3
JY 1
KC 1
LF 1
LG 1
LO 1
LQ 1
LT 2
LU 2
LV 2
LW 1
LX 2
LY 1
LZ 4
MA 2
MB 5
MC 3
MD 3
ME 1
MF 1
MG 1
MI 2
MJ 1
MK 1
ML 1
MM 1
MN 1
MO 1
MP 1
MQ 2
MR 2
MS 2
MT 1
MU 1
MV 1
MW 2
MX 2
MY 1
MZ 1
NA 1
NB 1
NC 1
ND 1
NE 1
NF 1
ZY 1

[justa]

glad you'll be back at it, fennshysa.  (i didn't mean to put you off your cosmic set .)  i've been trying to focus on some missing DC characters lately, but have been having trouble finding appropriate art i like.  there's no chance of me overlapping you on this project, as my knowledge of most Image titles is weak at best.

in answer to your question, i'm not comfortable putting a grid on characters that i'm not really up on, but i can say what i've seen.
for Pitt, i've seen 6 different grids (but only 2 sets of specials - go figure).  all but 1 of them put him at 8 strength.
for Impact, i've only seen 1 grid (no specials).  that 1 put him at 8 strength also.

from your list, i've seen ([different character grids and or IAs]/[sets of specials]):
Ballistic (4/2)
Cyblade (4/1)
Freefall (1/0)
Lara Croft (7/2)
Maul (2/1)
Maxx (3/3)
Prophet (1/0)
Spartan (3/2)
Voodoo (2/2) (not counting legacy cards)
Warblade (3/1)
Youngblood (1/0)

some of these Image cards are ones you put up on that "other" site years back.

i guess my only question to you is:  do you plan on focusing on 1 version of Spartan?  or as multiple character/identities?  or variant characters using the same set of specials?

looking forward to what you come up with!

[fennshysa]

My Image knowledge is pretty spotty at best too. I have a soft spot for Image though, i was really into comics as a kid when the Marvel exodus happened and was easily swayed by the shiny covers and big splash pages of Image. I didn't follow many of them for long though but I'm feeling nostalgic now.

One of the Lara Croft and Maxx sets are my old stuff, along with a few more of those character cards. I had one of the Ballistic sets that someone else did, it was very good. I've never seen the other Special sets. After i'm done I'd like to get a copy of them from you if possible. My gut remembrance of Pitt put him at an 8 Strength but i haven't found any wiki or comic vine knowledge to back that up. With Supreme and Majestic definitely being 8 Strength he might come in at a 7. My gut said 7 S for Impact but the only power description of him I found put him more at a Spider-Man level of 6.

Spartan
Probably a milder generic version of the cyborg we saw in the early WildCAT issues with some specials reflecting a few of his 'incarnations' (art is hard to come by).

A couple things i noticed when putting together the Special code list. Image has no Negates and no cards that deal with battlesites.

[chuu]

i don't know why, but only marvel got negates, even character that definitely should have had negates (mr. miracle, one of the super kids, commish..maybe) didn't get negates. 

I like image but i've only made three of the characters on your list.  I should make a cyblade and a Mr. Majestic...

[justa]

most of the cards are posted on this site if you search the Custom Cards pages.  1 of each the ones missing from Image locations (legacy) were contained in a version of OPOnline that had homemade cards incorporated into the database.  i don't remember who put that out there.

Supreme & Majestic i think both would outrank Maul in strength, even with his greatest Mass Increase.  but where you draw the line between 7 & 8 can be subjective.  maybe Specials could be crafted to reflect what's not in the grid.  i'm curious to see what (if anything) you do with his Mass Decrease into Dr. Jeremy Stone - no more strength, but much higher Intellect.  i don't remember him using that option often, but it came in handy when he did.

i believe the cyborg version was Hadrian.  much different power grid than the Kohl/Colt or Marlowe versions.

i think the Image set was intended to try out new mechanics and make their characters different from Marvel or DC.  (as opposed to DC being short-changed to "maintain" Marvel supremacy.)

[fennshysa]

I have actually been contemplating Maul for a few days and i think i have a good idea. His grid is going to be 2-5-5-5. His Inherent will read "Each battle before discard phase you may transfer up to 3 pts from Maul's Intellect to Strength (or vice versa) for remainder of battle." Here is my question, Is that too powerful on a 17 pt total character? I'm thinking about adding an additional line that states, "If Maul has a grid value of 8 the only Power cards he may use for defense are that type." (but polished up a little better)

Thoughts?
I'm also thinking of making his Dr Stone and Titanthrope cards only playable (or at least better) if his grid is configured a certain way.

[justa]

2555 would certainly be a novel approach to Maul!  most of what i've seem of him has been in the large form, and very little in smart form, so i'm not sure that he really warrants an 8 Intellect.  but i'm no expert on him.
and specials will definitely need to be dealt with in a unique fashion.  the two forms have entirely different skill sets.

also, you have Stormwatch on your list above.  i've only read the ellis issues, but it seemed to me that most of those characters could be done individually, instead of as a "team" character.

[fennshysa]

Stormwatch probably could be divided up. Maybe if i find enough nice art or come up with some good ideas. But they are not a comic that i read.

I'd really like to find out what font was used for the titles on the Image set. The capital G is super distinctive but none of the font identifiers online managed to match it. Not even close. I had a font that i thought i liked until I put it on a few cards and i realized it really wasn't that great.

I might try to squeeze Union, Angela, Overlord (Savage Dragon villain), Wildstar, John Lynch and Cyberdata's SHOCs (as a separate character) into the set if i can some up with enough art.

I could use some help with Maxx. I've always had a soft spot for sam kieth's weird art and crazy Maxx stories. But Maxx is kind of hard to translate as a character into overpower. This is what i have currently but am definitely open to suggestions. Claw Spikes, Protector and Vanquisher of Izz I'm pretty satisfied with. I thought about making "rabbit totem" a special that doubles Maxx's specials in venture total but even with duplicate Claw Spike specials that card just isn't good enough.

Maxx      2   6   5   3   16   
May have duplicate "Claw Spike" Specials.
   
Maxx   Claw Spikes   
Acts as a level 4 Fighting attack. May make 1 additional attack.   AA

Maxx   Julie   
Acts as a level 3 Energy, Fighting, Strength, or Intellect attack. Maxx may play 1 additional Special card.   JC

Maxx   The Outback   
Remove 1 Hit from Maxx's Battlesite.   KQ

Maxx   Protector   
Teammate may avoid 1 attack.   AD

Maxx   Rabbit Totem   
Draw 3 cards. Discard duplicates.   HQ

Maxx   Vanquisher of Izz   
Acts as a level 5 Strength attack +1 for each Maxx Special in any character's Permanent Record and Hits From Current Battle.   PC

[justa]

a few random comments...
i like the change of Julie from 5E to 3M.
i can see why you changed Claw Spikes.  while your old NT was a higher level attack, duplicates would not provide the secondary benefit.  but (justa my opinion, not a negative comment) the AA seems uninspired.
i thought the old Outback was quite effective.  especially if Opponent was using a defensive Battlesite (like the Outback?).  style more than substance.
Protector is an improvement over the old Spirit Guide.  why would the Spirit Guide be protecting a teammate.

at the very beginning of this thread, you mentioned looking for a frame for the specials.  you old frame was great!  it was the closest thing to the legacy frame that i've ever seen.

and i have no idea on fonts.  with my own limited skill set, i don't worry so much about copying the legacy versions as making the cards look presentable enough for posting.  (which i failed at doing on my individual "Heralds" characters.)

[fennshysa]

That old frame was one i picked up that someone else had made. It was close visually but not really very clear.
I'm not sure what the old Outback was.

Here are a couple. For visual design critique, what do you think about font and frame?
Maxx
Maxx
Maul
Maxx - Protector
Maxx - Julie

EDIT: Actually, I"m not sure that the old Frame was as bad as I thought it was. I may go back to that. It's kind of blurry but at printed size, they aren't too bad. Here's and example with the old frame.
Maxx - Vanquisher Of Izz

[justa]

since you asked, here's a few opinions:

fonts:  both character fonts look good.  the top Maxx font is more similar to what usually is used.  but the Maul font (& second Maxx font) is quite cool - i like the texture within the letters, and it seems to match better with the Special font.  it does seem to me that the Maul font should be slightly taller, and possibly thicker (its hard to judge with such a short name).  i guess it all depends on your end goals in the design - making it more similar to other cards, or establishing a "style" of your own.  (any way to put that texture into the other font?)

frames:  you're right; the old frame does looks blurry at higher magnification, but ok at normal size, and it is more similar to the legacy Image frame.  the new frame is more like other cards, but it is clearer and cleaner.  and i love the addition of the "i" logo behind the card code!  mucho style points!

your old Outback:  (OPD)[LD] Opponent may not attack or defend with cards from a Battlesite for remainder of battle.
but considering the character & comic story, maybe a non-OPD is more appropriate for that one.  what do i know?

additional:  from everything i've been able to find, "Izz" should be "Isz".

hope it helps.

[fennshysa]

Well, i've kept tinkering and think i might like the Image looking frame with the character font that was used in the Marvel cards. Though i did keep the other font for the actual card titles.
How about this one Example

I think i like the old outback better too. And thank you for the spelling catch.

[justa]

looks fine.  with that font on the Specials, the first Maxx font matches better.

[fennshysa]

OK. I went back to just the plain Marvel Character Template for my Image set. It looks cleaner and works for me.

Here are the first few Characters I had art for and Stats fairly solidified in my mind. Yes, Impact's is mostly a clone of Colossus but slightly better and slightly cheaper. Ballistic's is Basically Green Arrow. I decided on making Maxx's duplicate card "Protector", It makes him more useful for a low stat character. I had two really nice pieces of art for Maxx's character card so i made two. One is a picture of him in the Outback and one in the "real world". Right now they are just alternate image cards but as i am reading Sam Kieth's new collected recolored version from IDW if i come up with any ideas they may become two different versions of him.

The Youngblood character art was orginally a poster that Jae Lee did for Wizard Magazine back in the day. I found on Deviantart where someone had recolored the pencils. I've always had a soft spot for Jae Lee's dark looking superhero art so i had to use it even though Badrock and Vogue are rather covered up.

The Deathblow Specials are an odd bunch. "And Then You Live" makes "Lone Warrior" more useful in head at least. (Although I've debated making it a OPD like Grunge's, though that might make it too good.) I didn't want to give him an Avoid since I designed him to be a damage sponge that can get resurrected. "Tactical Disengagement" works at odds with "Lone Warrior" but I like it. I"m not sure that the other 3 specials make him useful enough so he may get an Inherent Ability yet after I play around with him.

Ballistic      4   7   5   3   19   
May attack the Reserve with Energy Power cards.

Cyblade      7   6   3   4   20

Deathblow      3   7   4   4   18

Deathblow   And Then You Live   
Play during battle. On your turn, after Deathblow is KO'd, discard this Special to move Deathblow from Defeated Characters Pile to Reserve. Play as normal.   NY

Deathblow   Deathblow   
Acts as a level 5 Fighting attack. If successful and Target has Hits totaling 15 or more, then Target is KO'd regardless of Inherent Abilities and other Special cards.   NW

Deathblow   Lone Warrior   
All attacks by opponent's team must be made against Deathblow until Deathblow is K.O.'d or cannot be attacked.   KC

Deathblow   Sister Mary   
Acts as a level 3 Fighting attack. May make 1 additional Power card attack. Neither attack may be defended with a Special card.   JW

Deathblow   Tactical Disengagement   
Acts as a level 6 Any-Power attack. If successful, Deathblow may not attack or be attacked for remainder of battle.   EH

Deathblow   Team 7   
Acts as a level 5 Energy or Fighting attack. May not be defended by a card from a Battlesite.   MA

Impact      1   5   7   3   16   
May not be Spectrum KO'd with Strength Power cards.

Maul      1   5   5   5   16   
Each battle before discard phase you may transfer up to 3 pts from Maul's Intellect to Strength (or vice versa) for remainder of battle.

Maxx   OR Maxx   2   6   5   3   16   
May have duplicate "Protector" Specials.

Youngblood      4   7   7   3   21

[justa]

good start.
i'm glad you mentioned the difference between the 2 Maxx character pics.  i though 1 was from a comic panel, and the other from cover art or a fan painting/drawing.  hope you can come up with a grid or IA difference to make them a little different from each other based on the 2 worlds.
i think Deathblow's Tactical Engagement works quite well with the "Lone/Live" specials tandem.  as a OPD, you may have to wait for And Then You Live to come up.  "Tactical" provides a chance of a staying action to keep him going (if needed) until "Live" can be implemented.  the mechanic matches the name matches the pic matches the strategy for using it.  you can't get much better than that!