DC Origins

[Demacus]

Does anyone else feel that DC origins set was majorly sucky? Aside from being the only place to get Intellect Basic universe cards, that entire set seems like a giant waste of printed paper.

Sure, JLA helped a few characters get a bit more play. Some of them can almost hold a flame to some of Marvel's worst. I'm not saying DC comics suck, just that they got some piss-poor representation in Overpower. Batman needed not 1, but 2 varients to justify his stats.

How many AR specials are floating around that set that don't go above a 4?  ...in a strong stat for that character? Not having to discard one cause it's a special instead of a powercard is nice, but give me something that might make a difference in venture (Marvel average is 6.)

Just an observation. Feel free to expand on this, but I'd wager that a solid DC origins deck would have a very hard time against just about any Marvel origins team.

[Palatinus]

I think that what you have stated is a commonly held opinion.  There is another thread about DC only decks as DC decks obviously aren't competitive against Marvel/Image decks.  I feel your frustration though, as I just decided to open my box of DC starters and boosters.  Worse than the cards being underpowered is how hard it is to get so many of them.  I mean, I think in all those packs and starters I got one Killer Croc and four specials for him.  Crazy.

[gameplan.exe]

This was called the Batman/Superman Edition. It was commonly abbreviated to the BS Edition, but that didn't stand for Batman/Superman... 

[drdeath25]

At least they gave the Riddler the hardest attack to block in the game.

[gameplan.exe]

At least they gave the Riddler the hardest attack to block in the game.

That is a nasty little card. Ranerdar loves Riddler anyway. That card took his fanboyism to another level!

[Palatinus]

Yeah, for whatever reason, the Riddler really did make out well over all in the set.  He has some very interesting specials.

[Kyle]

VS. system made up for it. DC was way more powerful than Marvel in that game.

[Demacus]

I wouldn't say DC was way more powerful. Some teams were REALLY annoying, Like Teen Titans and Green Lanter Corps, but the rest were pretty sucky. Ever seen an Arkham Inmates or Darkseid Elite deck breack top 8? Gotham wasn't bad, but Brotherhood/X-Men/Sentinels could still dismantle them.

I actually sat there analizing DC. Notice not a single AS special in the entire set? Why does Killer Croc have an energy rating of 4 but a strength of only 6? Exactly, what kind of energy attacks is he truely capable of?  Is he known for Mental or Energy manifestations? 

I think a lot of these characters would be on par with the rest of the game if they were less "interesting" and just had slightly more venture affecting specials. I did always like Riddler's Death Trap, but for landing a 3s, where does the rest of your venture come from?

[Ranerdar]

Notice not a single AS special in the entire set?

Metropolis S.C.U. has an AS. But yeah, I understand your point. I'm more than a little bummed that DC doesn't hold up.

[gameplan.exe]

Notice not a single AS special in the entire set?

Metropolis S.C.U. has an AS. But yeah, I understand your point. I'm more than a little bummed that DC doesn't hold up.

It's true, and Comm.Gordon and the G.C.P.D got the only level 8 AQ.

[Onslaught]

I think DC's weakness is entirely attributable to the fact that you're only comparing two sets against seven (plus promos) sets of Marvel. A lot of DC cards are junk, but so are a lot of Marvel cards. The few DC characters that are still playable are extremely good, and there are a few DC characters that were top tier at the time of their release that have now fallen behind. If you compare cards in the era they were released, JLA was a great set. If you compare the original set and Powersurge to DC and JLA, the DC cards are more powerful. If Image and DC had five more expansions like Marvel did, there would have been more parity.

[Palatinus]

If anyone had play tested the B/S set against their contemporary marvel cards, they would have made very different decisions.  I really like a lot of the ideas they had for the characters though.  I think Killer Croc having a four energy is kind of like Wolverine's energy rating.  It's more related to his ability to shrug off energy type attacks.  Also, though, if you think about the Flash's energy rating because of his speed, think about how fast Killer Croc is under water.  He can actually do super-human speed.

     As far as deck construction, you can actually make up for a lot of what the set lacks with a solid battlesite.  I think a lot of the stats, especially the number of dual 7 grids, was pretty nice.

[gameplan.exe]

I think DC's weakness is entirely attributable to the fact that you're only comparing two sets against seven (plus promos) sets of Marvel. A lot of DC cards are junk, but so are a lot of Marvel cards. The few DC characters that are still playable are extremely good, and there are a few DC characters that were top tier at the time of their release that have now fallen behind. If you compare cards in the era they were released, JLA was a great set. If you compare the original set and Powersurge to DC and JLA, the DC cards are more powerful. If Image and DC had five more expansions like Marvel did, there would have been more parity.

I wonder what a tournament would look like with only Original and B/S... or even through Power Surge and JLA... interesting thought!

[Demacus]

I wasn't knocking DC outright. JLA brought A LOT to the table. I'm simply stating at the time of B/S release, there were better decks with 3-stat marvel characters then with anytthing DC at the time.

Green Lantern and The Ray are very solid energy characters, both with only 5 specials, but again... JLA released characters.

Find 1 B/S character who you couldn't find a better marvel version for, excluding Locations/specials/card types that did not exist back when B/S made the scene.  You like Brainiac for the 8E?  Marvel in the Original set gave you Prof X or Magneto to choose from, not to mention Dr. Strange in PowerSurge. 

I think that if R&D was able to make JLA competative when it dropped, there was no reason why B/S couldn't be as well.

Personally, I've been making notes for a lot of the characters myself, whether grid or specials, on how to improve their playability. That doesn't mean I'm trying to make the characters broken, just more viable.  Little things like giving Bane a new special: The Man Who Broke The Bat- Acts as a level 7 Intellect attack. If successful, target character may not attack for remainder of battle.

Killer Croc stats would be 3E 5F 7S 1I. His specials are fine for the most part, save for Rampage, but sometimes 1 useless card is OK.

Superman is one of the Few DC characters who warrants a pure AG, call it Invulnerable.  If Rhino's Rhino Hide is thick enough to shrug off ANY attack, the Man of Steel should at least be capable of the same feat.

Batman deserves an 8 Intellect Stat. The World's Greatest Detective should bow to no-one's intellect. They kind of fixed that themselves with the Holo, but 4E 4F 4S 8I? Who wants those stats on their team without some amazing Inherant/Specials to back up that Grid? Want to keep him 20 pts? Why not just go with 2E 7F 3S 8I?  If you really thing Bats justifies the 4S, then make him a 6F, thought I'd say a martial arts expert should be at least a 7F.

There are so many notes like that. Superman is a 21 Point character. There are zero 23-pointers in B/S.  I'm fairly certain that Onslaught and his cadre had been released as inserts by then. No reason DC couldn't follow that example.

Supes should almost have been a 22-point character by right, making him the second 8S in the set.  This would also have allowed more room for the slightly weaker of the "supers" set. Supergirl might have caught a 7 on her grid. Same with Superboy.  And her shield to block 1 attack of 4 or less? What is that? At least make it usuable from reserve...

[Palatinus]

It does seem like one of the strangest things that DC comics, home of Superman, the guy who has whatever abilities seemed convenient that day, had such underpowered characters.  I think that Supes deserved an 8 strength.  A full avoid?  Sure, but a teammate avoid would have made even more sense.  He's the kind of guy to jump into the line of fire because he knows he can take it.  Batman is a tricky one, I think.  He needs to be dual grid fighting and intellect.  In DC they have so many people with so many powers and yet, somehow, Batman not only keeps up but manages to overcome anything from Kryptonian's to New Gods.  So, yeah, he deserves an 8.  Maybe two.  The problem is, there are a lot of characters that could be given really strong grids and so everything needs to be done on a scale.  The best thing would have been if they had given the characters specials and grids that balanced each other out.  Inherent abilities would have helped tremendously, but they hadn't started doing that yet.  As far as Supergirl goes . . . the Supergirl from the time Overpower came out sucked.  And good riddance to her crappiness.  Only being able to block a 1-4 is being kind to her.  I think the opinion posted at the beginning of this thread, that DC was an underpowered set, is very true.  On the otherhand, it is still a beautiful looking set of cards and is fun to play by itself, or especially with JLA.  Really, though, Batman has some terrible specials and his grid, even with two 7's still feels inadequate.