superman

[steve2275]

not bad jesse

[Demacus]

I usually don't like to chime in in forums when people are arguing but I would like to back up my reasoning for Superman to have a decent Intellect stat.

He has an Eidetic Memory. He has been shown to have flawless, total recall of everything he has ever seen, read, or heard.
He is often shown as being fluent in many of Earth's languages.
His memory was so great, that when he created a statue of his parents it was accurate right down to their finger-prints.
He builds Superman Robots.

Just some of my thoughts. If need be I can go digging through my comic box and start quoting pages and issue numbers 

These are actually aspects of the character I was unaware of. I knew of the existence of
Superman Robots, I didn't know he  had anything to do with their creation. I didn't know about his linguistic skills, nor his replication of his parents, all of which indicate a much higher intellect then I previously indicated him to have.  I would still argue that in combat he doesn't rely on his intellect to the same degree as Batman or Blue Beetle, but he is certainly more intelligent than I gave him credit for. I apologize for my initial statement.

[Jesse]

These are actually aspects of the character I was unaware of. I knew of the existence of
Superman Robots, I didn't know he  had anything to do with their creation. I didn't know about his linguistic skills, nor his replication of his parents, all of which indicate a much higher intellect then I previously indicated him to have.  I would still argue that in combat he doesn't rely on his intellect to the same degree as Batman or Blue Beetle, but he is certainly more intelligent than I gave him credit for. I apologize for my initial statement.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've read a lot of Superman variations and he does get changed around a lot! I know in one older issue of Action Comics he was smart but there was never a mention of extreme levels of intelligence, however in that one issue his powers had returned (lost them previously in another issue - not the current point  ) and he said something to Lois along the lines of "my mind and my memory is faster, more precise and  my brainpower was somehow boosted as well with the return of my powers" (Someone may be able to quote that better but from memory but Im hoping its pretty clsoe). I just tossed that in because even from issue to issue it changes with any character - especially Sups.

[Kal-el]

I guess I'll wade in to this.

Pre-Crisis (before 1986), Superman had super-intelligence. You could argue that this Superman could justify a 7 or 8 intellect. Of course, this Superman also had super-ventriloquism, so they weren't exactly skimping on the 'super' powers. I'll ignore this Superman.

New 52 (2011-present) is anyone's guess.

Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.

So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.

[mattkoz]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've read a lot of Superman variations and he does get changed around a lot! I know in one older issue of Action Comics he was smart but there was never a mention of extreme levels of intelligence, however in that one issue his powers had returned (lost them previously in another issue - not the current point  ) and he said something to Lois along the lines of "my mind and my memory is faster, more precise and  my brainpower was somehow boosted as well with the return of my powers" (Someone may be able to quote that better but from memory but Im hoping its pretty clsoe). I just tossed that in because even from issue to issue it changes with any character - especially Sups.

I don't read any DC comics, but it seems to me Superman could benefit from a few variant character cards.

[Demacus]

Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.

So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.

Thank you for the brief summery Kal. I really had no idea about his accomplishments, but I do appreciate that even you, with your vast knowledge of the character, have stated that even a 6 would be a stretch. I didn't mean any disrespect with my comment about his education.

I don't read any DC comics, but it seems to me Superman could benefit from a few variant character cards.

Yes, Superman could benefit from various varients. Earth-2, Earth-X, Ultraman, The Man Beyond Tomorrow, and Kingdom Come just off the top of my head.

[Jesse]

I guess I'll wade in to this.

Pre-Crisis (before 1986), Superman had super-intelligence. You could argue that this Superman could justify a 7 or 8 intellect. Of course, this Superman also had super-ventriloquism, so they weren't exactly skimping on the 'super' powers. I'll ignore this Superman.

New 52 (2011-present) is anyone's guess.

Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.

So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.

I wasn't saying 7 or 8. But I would greatly argue he is undoubtedly a 5 or 6. Reasoning 1)The brief list of things I mentioned earlier that express his memory, intellegence and scientific abilities 2) If people are going to say that Spider-Man needs a higher intellect simply because he's smart, you cannot ignore Superman's intelligence just beacuse he is predominately a brute force. 3)Kryptonian knowledge that was downloaded to him - it doesnt matter if it was downloaded to him or he learned it in school like Peter Parker, the fact is it is there. 4) What about the Vanishing Machine? Created by Superman to essentially make the Phantom Zone a Paradise zone.

I would rate his intellect at a 5 or 6. For gameplay continuity I would go with a 5 simply becuase he will have a 7/8 in both energy and strength and wouldn't need the additional high stat. But I would not ignore the intellect and put a cop-out 3/4.

Look at Malebolgia. 7E, 6S, 8I. With the Inherent on the Intellect. If need be place an inherent on Sup's Intellect as well, but I do not believe it should be a lower value just because as Clark Kent he went to an average high school and an average college.

I don't read any DC comics, but it seems to me Superman could benefit from a few variant character cards.

This would probably be the only way to get everyone to agree 

[Nostalgic]

New 52 (2011-present) is anyone's guess.

Post-Crisis (1987-2011) is the Superman that I'm most familiar with, and the one that the card game was based on, so I'll focus on that. He has a HS degree from Smallville and a college degree from Metropolis University. He is a prize-winning journalist, winning the 'Baldy' at least once in comics (I believe this would have been in 1995), and I think he won an award for his novel 'Under a Yellow Sun' as well. He spent years traveling the world and is conversational in a number of languages, and is completely fluent in both English and Kryptonian. His brain works incredibly quickly and unlike Flash he can remember things which he reads at super-speed. He has spent time in the future and is comfortable working with advanced science and technology. His birthing matrix also downloaded a ton of Kryptonian information into his brain (which is where he learned the language), and while it's never really explicitly stated, I feel that's where he got his knowledge of Kryptonian science, which was far, far more advanced than Earth's.

So no, he's definitely not a 7 or an 8, and even a 6 would probably be a stretch, but he's definitely smarter than your average high school grad from Kansas.

Good points have been raised, but nobody has addressed the 'definition of terms' I brought up earlier.  I mean the languages, sculpting ability, memory mean what as it relates to what a 2, 3, 4, 5 intellect are in overpower? In Superman 2 he tricks Lex Luther and uses a special chamber to shield himself  from the red sun rays depowering Gen Zod and company. I'd say this little intellect attack is example of Sup's cunning. Although setting all that up (I mean the tech itself) might require an 8i, supermans ploy might by a 3 or 4 intellect attack. Also I mean there is a difference between 'knowledge of' something and inventing it yourself. I'm sure just about anyone on the enterpirse can use a tricorder(?) but not everyone could take it apart and put it together. In my opinion a 4 intellect is MUCH smarter than your average high school or perhaps even many college grads. 

All that said, I wouldn't me upset at a 5i. 

[Jesse]

[Good points have been raised, but nobody has addressed the 'definition of terms' I brought up earlier.  I mean the languages, sculpting ability, memory mean what as it relates to what a 2, 3, 4, 5 intellect are in overpower?

This is true, because depending on the terms he could have an 8 or he could have a 1 (same could be said for anyone else with any other stat).


A lot of it comes down to perception. I know how I feel about Sups based on what I have read, watched, and heard. I also know Kal-el has his feelings based on what he has read, watched and heard and the same for breadmaster and everyone else. I know you could even manage an argument that says Sups should not have a 7E  . I'd put that entirely on Sups "holding back" how much power he uses in some of the comics and even the JL tv show, because he was afraid of how powerful he could become.

In any sense I feel like the thoughts are good on both sides so we'll just have to wait for the customs to start flying in soon from everybody, lol. 

[Demacus]

I just wanted to thank those of you who have opinions and are actually bringing them to the table to support why you feel what you feel. I will admit, I spoke out of ignorance, but being ignorant of my ignorance, spoke folly of Superman. Thanks to those of you who recognized ignorance and saw the opportunity to educate instead of berate.  As far as game balance, I think his printed stats are in the ballpark, but his lack of good specials are why people pass him up for their team(s).  7-3-8-5 is closer then his printed grid, but making him cost more does not make him more appealing, if his pool of tricks are still horribly sub-par. Maybe we should focus on Specials.

[breadmaster]

nobody has addressed the 'definition of terms' I brought up earlier.  I mean the languages, sculpting ability, memory mean what as it relates to what a 2, 3, 4, 5 intellect are in overpower?

this is a good point.  i'd argue that intellect in any field gets you points in overpower, regardless of how 'useful' it is in combat

reyes gets a 6i for medical knowledge
daredevil gets a 6i for law
samson 6i for psychiatry
mojo and aquaman 6i for...running a network and talking to fish? (i kid, i kid)

even if we ignore all of his scientific knowledge, he is an investigative reporter.  that by itself should prove at the very least as useful in the wide open field of overpower (where people are trying to complete missions, in addition to pounding the stuffing out of each other ) 

[steve2275]

i think clark should have at least a 5 i
but what i wanna know is why does thor have 4i? 

[Jesse]

but what i wanna know is why does thor have 4i? 

Maybe the 4 represents how smart the Asgardians are when they're not drinking........

[Demacus]

X-Ray Vision - Sort through opponents draw pile. Choose any 1 card and remove it from the game.  Reshuffle draw pile.
Defender of Metropolis - Superman or teammate may avoid any numerical attack.
Rays Of The Yellow Sun - Remove all hits from Superman's Permanent Record and Current Battle, and switch places with the Reserve.

I know they aren't unique, but I'd say they would be a nice help to Big Blue.

[steve2275]

X-Ray Vision - Sort through opponents draw pile. Choose any 1 card and remove it from the game.  Reshuffle draw pile.
Defender of Metropolis - Superman or teammate may avoid any numerical attack.
Rays Of The Yellow Sun - Remove all hits from Superman's Permanent Record and Current Battle, and switch places with the Reserve.

I know they aren't unique, but I'd say they would be a nice help to Big Blue.

cool man cool