so i was thinking about ultimate evil

[Nate Grey]

I like the first one for Doc Oc, but I'm not a fan of the second one. Not because it's bad, but Doc Oc has two major problems; Beast, and Donald Pierce. All three have similar power grids, but out of the 3 Doc Oc would be last on my list even with those two cards. Also he'd have a lot of attacks with both of them. How about Marrow's LO - Marrow or teammate may avoid 1 attack of 4 or less. Marrow may draw 1 card from the top of the Draw Pile. Discard duplicates?

Now he's a unique threat... he STILL probably isn't better than DP or Beast, but a special like that would go further towards bridging that gap. Also it'd help to bump "Nuclear Physicist" up to a 10. Then he doesn't have to worry about those "9 or less" avoids.

Thanks for the feedback! I think I am going to agree with you that "Nuclear Physicist" should be up to a 10. As for the other card, I figured giving the Ravencroft Battlesite an EF would do nicely.

Thanks for everyone else's feedback. Been a while since I threw up other suggestions so here's some more:

Dracula – Vampirize OPD (BY) Opponent must immediately discard all cards with an Intellect icon currently held in hand.

Dracula – Fog Conversion OPD (BJ) Dracula may not be attacked for remainder of battle.

Enforcers – Hired Extortionists (HY) Acts as a level 6 Fighting attack. If successful, Target Character must discard 2 cards of opponent's choice. Cards may be Placed or in Hand.

Enforcers – Henchmen OPD (DU) Enforcers may make 4 attacks, 3 attacks at +1 each, 2 attacks at +2 each, or 1 attack at +3. Bonus not applied to damage, or Venture total.

[BasiliskFang]

Dracula – Fog Conversion OPD (BJ) Dracula may not be attacked for remainder of battle.

maybe the other type that says unless he attacks them first.

[thetrooper27]

Dracula literally is the worst 8 character I can think of.  He really needs the boost of good specials.  I like Fog Conversion as the OPD.  The Southern Belle version doesn't seem to be good at all, because he can still be attacked by other characters.  If anything, make it a hold down card, like Iron Curtain.  But for the name "Fog Conversion" I can see it being a BJ.  Might even be cool to give it to him as something like "Dracula or teammate may not be attacked for remainder of battle."  I don't believe any other BJ gives you that option, and might make Dracula highly considerable.

[steve2275]

Enforcers – Hired Extortionists (HY) Acts as a level 6 Fighting attack. If successful, Target Character must discard 2 cards of opponent's choice. Cards may be Placed or in Hand.

Enforcers – Henchmen OPD (DU) Enforcers may make 4 attacks, 3 attacks at +1 each, 2 attacks at +2 each, or 1 attack at +3. Bonus not applied to damage, or Venture total.

sweet
2 more specials for hell's kitchen 

[breadmaster]

one change i think is required is the hydra card.  the text, 'discard to dead characters pile after use' should be added, since you could retrieve a draw card (HQ), and a recycle card (BQ) and continuously draw cards

a bunch of other new mechanics were tested, and nothing was revealed as too powerful

as i said before, alot of characters have stuff suggested that i really like.  the following is a list of characters that i think need a better card

doc ock: hq suggested-this is good, but i'm still not sure it bumps him enough
green goblin
hobgoblin
kree
leader
red skull
shadow king
hand
kingpin
marauders
mojo: i like harv's 'reruns' idea, but not the 1-6 avoid for the card
xaos
shiar

[Hotobu]

You know, on thinking about it, I am not too sure it would be broken. You'd find yourself at more of a disadvantage than you'd think.

Its maximum use would only come if you got it in the first hand. But at that point, what you're looking at is essentially being down one card for the rest of the game as the card does not add to venture, does not defend or attack. It gives you a tactical trick that can come in handy, but only so long as you keep Venom alive.

Played from the site is a one trick pony as Site specials are automatically pitched to dead heroes after use even with a 'recycle' clause.

Being 1 card down is a huge drawback - have you ever tried using Onslaught's Citadel as a homebase? It's brutal. Add discards to that and you're screwed.

So, as powerful as it might seem in theory, I think in practice you'd find yourself losing with it more often than not.

-BBH

But the way the card is worded you aren't at a card disadvantage. As he said you get a card back

appears i still re-worded it with ambiguity

by 'replace' with the top card in draw pile, i meant that the top card goes into venom's hand.  again, i realize this is very powerful, but it's meant to be

as for 'ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUSLY OVERPOWERED'...give it a rest man.  when you sound the alarm so often, it loses it's effectiveness.

like any powerful card...you don't like it, negate it.  it's not going to win venom a battle...ever.  it's designed to win him the game.  like in the comics, a drawn out war with venom is a bad idea, and this card is supposed to have that feel

And yes it is "absolutely ridiculously overpowered. First of all the "If you don't like it negate it" is not at all a valid means of assessing the power of a card. With a few exceptions all specials can be negated. Here's an idea for a special "For the remainder of the game target character may not attack." Is this too powerful? No, it isn't. If you don't like, it negate it. See how silly that is? A special being susceptible to a negate is not a valid means of assessing the power of a special since all specials share this weakness. Furthermore even though negates are good it's bad game design for them to be the safety net for balancing specials. In addition to this not every deck has to have, or should have a slew of negates to make it competitive.

Pretty much any random draw of 8 cards out of any deck is going to produce a good card. Getting to do this every hand with no penalty is what's broken. This is WAY better than a GL special and will more times than not gut the strategy of any deck. Event cards, strong OPDs, activators, artifacts, high level power cards etc. are pretty much guranteed in a random drawing of 8 cards. You're trading 1 card for any number of cards with no penalty. Also this special surviving until the power pack is all but a guaranteed win.

When balancing a special the card should always be thought of as being played under optimal circumstances not what can be done to combat it. Played in the first hand against a non negate deck this card will maul other decks.

------

Re: Dracula

The problem with giving him a pure BJ special is that he sucks so bad why would I want to attack him? In practice this special would have to be placed. Though that's what happens with some BJ specials there'd be the strong chance of this being AI special fodder from a character or battlesite. "Dracula or Teammate" would be more playable.

Re: Marauders

They don't need anything worth a damn. They're extremely good as it is. Maybe an AA, but even that's at least usable. I think that's why they got a shitty card in XM.

[BigBadHarve]

But the way the card is worded you aren't at a card disadvantage. As he said you get a card back
[/quote]

Sorry, I had to go back and re-read it - I was thinking it simply got put on top like 'With Great power...' I didn't realize it was a switch for a card.

I still am not sure how broken it would be in the long run. Definitely handy - but the other points remain. It's a one-time use from a battlesite and not nearly as good as a Deathstrike, or other far more brutal cards - so that's not imbalanced. In order to get full use out of it, you'd have to use Venom on your team. Knowing that card is there, he becomes a target. Every try using Colossus on a team now? He's gone in 60 seconds baby!   With his Siberian strength and now his Marvels? Hello target boy. I think you'd find Venom has the same problem.

I think your concerns are reasonable... but ultimately it's worth playtesting just to see the end result. And it is certainly good enough to make anyone consider using Venom. (Not that I overlook him myself, I find he's really only missing one more card to be good.)

Anyway, that's my thought on it. In the brainstorming period, there's nothing taboo.

-BBH

[Hotobu]

That's interesting. You're telling me you wouldn't take that card over Deathstrike? Granted Deathstrike let's you see a whole deck, and remove one card, but this one gets you a card back every time you use it. The only time I'd take Deathstrike over it is if I were playing against an Any Hero deck to get rid of DOW. Other than that I'm fine with getting to choose from the top 8 and still getting a card back.

[halcyon1234]

like in the comics, a drawn out war with venom is a bad idea, and this card is supposed to have that feel

Okay, simple change:  "Look through top 8 cards and discard 1 Power Card to Dead Pile".

In the short term, you might be able to de-power a Teamwork next battle. Nothing game breaking.

But then Power Pack comes around.  Best case, you've taken out 8 power cards. Chances are only 4.  Still big. Because that means a 7 character has taken out the 8s and evened the battle. As the drawn out battle goes on, each round you're pegging out one of their Power Cards. If Venom's still standing-- THEN and only then does it become and absolute game winner. And deservedly so.

Edit:  Forgot about the "replace" bit.  That is powerful, though possibly dupe-causing so not overly broken.  What if you did this:

Look at the top 5. Pitch 1 card to dead pile.  DO NOT RESHUFFLE.  Put on top of draw pile.

You're giving up the exchange to get rid of one card AND know what the next 4 cards are.

That said, I don't mind the exchange. It will make a medium-level character (Venom) all that more powerful, which is fine. It doesn't break in Battlesites. It keeps card parity for a non-attack action that only pays off in future battles.

[Hotobu]

like in the comics, a drawn out war with venom is a bad idea, and this card is supposed to have that feel

Okay, simple change:  "Look through top 8 cards and discard 1 Power Card to Dead Pile".

In the short term, you might be able to de-power a Teamwork next battle. Nothing game breaking.

But then Power Pack comes around.  Best case, you've taken out 8 power cards. Chances are only 4.  Still big. Because that means a 7 character has taken out the 8s and evened the battle. As the drawn out battle goes on, each round you're pegging out one of their Power Cards. If Venom's still standing-- THEN and only then does it become and absolute game winner. And deservedly so.

Edit:  Forgot about the "replace" bit.  That is powerful, though possibly dupe-causing so not overly broken.  What if you did this:

Look at the top 5. Pitch 1 card to dead pile.  DO NOT RESHUFFLE.  Put on top of draw pile.

You're giving up the exchange to get rid of one card AND know what the next 4 cards are.

That said, I don't mind the exchange. It will make a medium-level character (Venom) all that more powerful, which is fine. It doesn't break in Battlesites. It keeps card parity for a non-attack action that only pays off in future battles.

First of all the card needs to be OPD. That hasn't been said yet. Secondly I'd be fine with any wording if it said "discard after 2 uses."

Oh BTW here's a card for Mr. Sinister.

Genetic Alteration [OPD] - Remove one hit from Mr. Sinister or teammate's hits from current battle or hits to permanent record, and increase character's hits to KO by 3 points. Affects venture total.

[thetrooper27]

How about Top 8, choose any card other than a power card, discard it, then reshuffle venom special into draw pile?  That limits its use, you aren't likely to abuse it unless you get lucky enough to redraw it, and it doesn't replace itself. OPD.  You might be able to try it with the draw to replace first, and if it's too good, then drop the redraw.  It will really depend on how often you get the card at random... by limiting what kind of card you can pick, you spare them the advantage of crushing them in the power pack battle.   

If not that, I like top 5 (maybe even top 8, but I won't push too hard for that), choose any one to discard, then put venom special on top of draw pile.  Not replacing itself.  However you word it, not drawing to replace might prevent the card from being played by many players.  Playing down a card, which this wording would ensure, is never good for me and probably isn't for anyone else either.

Lots of good discussion on this one... I think finding the right fit for it could make it a really unique and also play boosting special for Venom.

Maybe instead of top of library, opponent reveals x number, say 5 cards from hand, you choose one to be discarded, and put venom special on top of draw pile.  OPD.?  I get to see part of your hand that you wish to reveal, I pick one card, we're both down the same card advantage wise (one for one), I had to play an action that didn't net me any venture at all, so if it's my first play of the turn, you pretty much get to attack first every round (sometimes twice!!!).  It's a little bit better than Doc Samson's analytical assault, not extremely broken (that I can see, but you guys can fix that... broken... fix... anyway), and might mimic the dynamic of "With Great Power..." a little bit better.  Any thoughts?

[Hotobu]

See now those suggestions make a lot of sense. Not replacing it, and reshuffling limits it nicely. Even then you wouldn't have to limit it because chances are you'd only get 3 uses. I'd also restrict its ability to be shuffled into the power pack. The main thing that breaks it is it being replaced.

The reveal 5 + discard is interesting though.

[halcyon1234]

See now those suggestions make a lot of sense. Not replacing it, and reshuffling limits it nicely. Even then you wouldn't have to limit it because chances are you'd only get 3 uses. I'd also restrict its ability to be shuffled into the power pack. The main thing that breaks it is it being replaced.

The reveal 5 + discard is interesting though.

I would agree that "replace" is a bit much.  I wouldn't argue so much with a shuffle+draw.  The number of cards seen in an opponent's deck-- and if the opponent should reshuffle-- should depend on one question:  do you want Venom to know what's coming up in the opponent's next hand? Does this effectively count as a "must play next hand open handed" card?

Personally, I like top 8, one LIMITED card, don't shuffle opponent, shuffle Venom.  Has a nice balance, pays off in Power Pack.

[Hotobu]

Well if that's the case and the opponent doesn't have to shuffle it should be top 5 max. Getting to see 7 of 8 cards of the opponent's hand multiple times in a game seems a bit much. At least if it's top 5 you only know 4 cards so there's some mystery to the hand.

[thetrooper27]

"Personally, I like top 8, one LIMITED card, don't shuffle opponent, shuffle Venom.  Has a nice balance, pays off in Power Pack."

How do these sound?  We could go one or the other. 

Item 1:  Look at the top 8 cards of opponent's draw pile and choose one special card.  Opponent discards that card.  Reshuffle Venom special into draw pile. OPD.

Item 2:  Opponent chooses and reveals 4 special cards from their hand, of which you choose and discard one.  Place Venom special on top of your draw pile.  OPD.

If we were to use either of these, would it make Venom a contender?