Palatinus' OverPower Forum

Quote from: ncannelora on May 17, 2013, 01:18:23 PM

Quote from: steve2275 on May 16, 2013, 03:13:01 AM
http://marvel.wikia.com/Mephisto_(Earth-616)
perhaps 8348

I think it's a bad idea to create a dual-8 stat character...

I agree.  It might be justified, but probably not the best idea.

Quote from: ncannelora on May 17, 2013, 01:18:23 PM

Quote from: steve2275 on May 16, 2013, 03:13:01 AM
http://marvel.wikia.com/Mephisto_(Earth-616)
perhaps 8348

I think it's a bad idea to create a dual-8 stat character...

he is a god. galactus has quad 8s.

I agree with with dual 8 people...I think its time we start taking a look at potential dual 8s

Mephisto certainly is worthy of at least an 8/7 grid, not unlike his Image counter-part Malebolgia, but comics-wise I think he gets the bump to dual 8s.  you can always have a restrictive IA such as Energy power cards can't be used to defend, but I certainly think he's in line.  Similarly, if we ever create a Thanos (which we should!!!), there's NO way you can argue against a a dual 8 grid, with an off 6.  We've had a handful of 8/7s (Prof X, Onslaught, Malebolgia, Spawn, Heroes for Hire-who by the way could have the case made for being a dual 8 with iron fist in there, if you ask me), so I think it's time to step into the next realm of possibilities!

I won't disagree that there aren't characters that could fit the dual 8 category, but as cards and characters are more powerful, they render other choices obsolete.  At the very least, we should be careful not to make their specials too good.  With 6 playable icon specific teamworks, they will be already very strong, not to mention their defensive capability.  I'm open to exploration... we're having fun here, afterall, but as we think about this option, we should tread carefully.

I completely agree troop.  Take a look at Malebolgia...he's got a huge grid, and his specials are some of the worst in the game!  We could very easily have Meph (or Thanos...GAH...we NEED to make a Thanos hero!)  be a dual 8, and balance him out in the specials.  No avoids, no negates, no AR..etc etc.  Maybe one decent special as an OPD, but nothing that people are going to be like "meph is always going to be in my deck!"

If breadmaster is okay with it, I think Thanos being a new character in the set would be okay.  Maybe he could have a cool inherent ability that relates to the Gauntlet and he wouldn't really need a bunch of specials.  One OPD, and an inherent ability that does something like:

Thanos does not need a teammate to play "The Infinity Gauntlet" Tactic card.

That might be too powerful, but I'm just getting the discussion started.

I've been working on an alternate Overpower game over the last several months. It basically has become its own game that shares multiple OP elements. I plan on posting something in the near future to get some feedback, but the reason I opened with this description is because I've created new grids and cards for the majority of the characters that are featured in Overpower, along with new characters.

Regarding Mephisto: You could argue that he deserves dual 8's in his grid, but at the same time, you could make the same case for Malebolgia who only has one 8. For me, I've used the triple 7 grid from the PowerBalance character card for Mephisto. Even though this grid doesn't contain an 8, it also doesn't have a negative inherent ability, so I feel it places both Mephisto and Malebolgia on the same level in certain respects. It's also a unique grid, as a triple 7 grid would make Mephisto the only character in the game with three 7's (even in my version of OP, only Mephisto and Iron Man have three 7's).

Dual 8 characters should be extremely rare. I have three in my game, not counting Galactus and Anti-Monitor who have four 8's. I agree that Thanos should have two 8's, and I have three Thanos character cards in my collection. One of those three is the character card Bios created, but here are the grids I have for my three Thanos cards:

Bios version of Thanos: 7-2-8-8 counts as 26 points for deck building.
TGW Thanos v.1: 8-4-7-6
TGW Thanos v.2: 6-5-8-7

There are a few existing OP characters who could be considered for dual 8's. Malebolgia and Onslaught are good examples, but for the sake of game balance, it's required sometimes to take a powerhouse character and make sure they aren't too overpowered. In the case of Thanos and for the sake of gameplay balance, I'd consider using the Bios grid if you insist on a dual 8 character. If not, perhaps a revised grid with an inherent ability should be considered. Perhaps something like this:

Revised Thanos: 6-5-8-6

I'd give Thanos a similar inherent ability to Malebolgia, where he couldn't use a certain power type for defense. I'd also make sure he has no avoids of any kind for his specials. This could be attributed to his fetish with Death, and being that Thanos would cost 25 points, maybe the inherent could stick with the Malebolgia theme and allow for his cost to be 23 points but not allow for him to use strength power cards for defense. Going off the revised grid, you suddenly have a 25 point grid, 23 point cost Thanos who can't defend with strength power cards, leaving his only usable power cards (excepting anypower of course) to defend at a max 6, making him vulnerable to attack. Malebolgia has a 7 energy to boost his defense, but his specials are weak. He's better suited as a reserve character that takes the game into the power pack and uses his OPD to not be cumulative KO'd for the remainder of the game. Thanos should be given stronger attacking specials due to not having a 7 in his grid and not being able to use strength power cards to defend.

In a way, he'd be sorta like a glass cannon. Not helpless of course, but also not invincible. Most players would target him immediatly in a game, so I'd give him strong attacking specials so Thanos could do maximum damage before being take out. I'd give Thanos the same special Cyclops received in The Marvels expansion. It would allow for a powerful non-OPD attack while removing the ability for teammates to defend Thanos with special cards for the remainder of the game.

Thoughts, fellas?

Hmmm... If a character costs 23 points and has an 8 at all, they should be able to defend with their 8.  Being 23 points doesn't make them a threat on their own.  I might not target Malebolgia if Scarlet Witch, or Xman or anyone with awesome specials were on the team, but that's just me.   Similarly, unless Thanos has amazing cards, he's probably gonna hang tight, especially if he can't block anything higher than a 6.  If the game goes to Power Pack, he'll get creamed there with no defense.   I do think that dual 8's should be extremely rare, but at this point there are none, so it might be okay to experiment.

Thanos is supposed to be a big bad.  Even with a high point value, we should do him justice.  And we shouldn't really base him on anyone else.  Lots of characters could be redone... we can't worry about them.  I don't think Malebolgia's restriction is fair for him to have nothing but the one good OPD.  Just make Thanos strong, but not broken, and give him justified stats.  23 points is probably a good enough point cap for a standard character.  Even Galactus is hard to play because he's only really bringing teamworks to the table at 24 points.  Beyonder needs to be 27 points because hes stupid good.  2 8's might not be a bad thing... just needs to be balanced for playing.

Remember, Thanos would have a 25 point grid but would only cost 23 points, just like Malebolgia, who also can't use his 8 grid to defend. Being that Thanos is a big bad, he would receive four or five high powered specials, including the 9 stat non-OPD that Cyclops received in Marvels. You could focus your attacks on another character, but that would leave Thanos around to lay the smack down with strong attacking specials.

Temporarily shifting gears a little bit, I had a new thought today...

What about designing a few specials for this set that create some synergy with cards that don't get much playtime, such as AT specials.  I was reading a thread about Spidey's "With Great Power..." and Onslaught mentioned that Cable's Battle Tactics was actually pretty strong in a deck that uses that card's mechanic.  So what if we designed a few specials that went back to the top of the deck, but don't work like Spidey's card... that one is his, and I think it should stay that way.  But how about this nonOPD:

Acts as a level 4* attack.  If successful, search through Power Pack for any 2 power cards, place one in hand, and one on top of draw pile.  

It's not hard to block, but its probably a must block since it replaces itself and will in most cases yield another strong attack, but in the right situation, you could follow up with an AT, and potentially have a devastating turn.  This could be given to a character that needs just enough push, and then might make some characters such as Gambit, Punisher or Doc Ock (maybe Ock could even use this special), etc. a consideration where they didn't get much play time before.  I'm brainstorming for more specials that might set up AT's, since they're OPD's and don't get any play.

I also had this idea for a neat OPD for someone:

*Character playing special* may choose a power card placed to target opponent and attack any frontline opponent with it.  OPD

It steals, and makes a venture contributing attack, making it effectively a 2 for 1.  It could be avoided since it targets an opponent, or you could make it even better by just having it say "may choose a power card place to opponent's team", then it could only be negated!  The wording might need to be adjusted for rules purposes, but it seems cool enough to me.  You could probably make a version that says "special" card instead of "power" card for a character with mimic powers, such as Warlock or Taskmaster.  You could do one that says "universe" card instead of "power" card, as well. 

For a defensive special, maybe something such as:

*Character playing special* or teammate may avoid one attack of 6 or less.  Discard this special the top of draw pile. OPD.

6 or less doensn't stop the big special attacks or teamwork followups, but it's midrange enough to be strong, and stops a bunch of good attacks in the game.  I thought about making it a 6A that could only be used to defend so and so or teammate, much like Sabra or Wasp's 9.  In this case, numerical bonuses would make it better but I'm not sure if that would make it too strong, so weigh in on it and the others if you think they have some potential.  These are untested ideas and if they're bad, everyone's input would help make them better.  Just wanted to see what everyone thought. 

i'm not opposed to dual 8s (superman and batman come to mind), but is mephisto worthy of it?  he seems like a trickster and mischief maker more than a great intellect like most of the other 8s (excepting Dracula).  for characters like him, I try to balance what I know of the character, with what other 'power rankings' say.  again, maybe I've read the wrong stuff (mephisto vs/infinity gauntlet/silver surfer) so if someone has examples of him showing 8-worthy intellect, i'd love to hear em

MEPHISTO

Energy: 8
Fighting: 2
Strength: 6
Intellect: 7

Captured Soul: All attacks made against Mephisto are made against target front line teammate until teammate is KO'd. [OPD]
Pact made in Hell: Mephisto's Hits to KO is reduced by 5 points. Mephisto's actions are +2 for the remainder of the game. [OPD]
The Devil is in the Details: For remainder of game, Mephisto's team may draw 2 cards when a character on either team is KO'd OPD
Fire and Brimstone: Acts as a level 9 Strength attack. If successful, Mephisto or Mephisto's teammates may not defend Mephisto with Special cards for remainder of game. (FT) 
In My Domain: Acts as a level 2E attack. If successful remove all special card hits from Mephisto's and teammate's permanent record and hits to current battle. Affects venture total.
Servant of the Mad Titan: Opponent -3 to Venture Total for this battle.  If opponent has "Infinity Gauntlet" Mission, opponent -6 to Venture Total for this battle. If both players have "Infinity Gauntlet" Mission, opponent is -9 to Venture Total for this battle.  KH

I changed a few specials around.  also added an FT and new opd.  it may be too much, or maybe not.

as far as thanos goes, for this set we'll just be sticking to the 10 characters on locations and warlock for new stuff.  he's a great center piece for someone who wants to make a new set of homemades.  i did think of a neat negative inherent for him though (assuming he's a triple eight) 'thanos is automatically ko'd at the end of round 3'. this reflects his tendancy to sabotage his own plans

Just for rules clarification purposes in designing Mephisto, how would the FT 9 work in conjunction with Captured Soul? If I've played the 9, then I play the Captured Soul, aren't the attacks being shifted, which would be considered a defense from a special?

I like your Mephisto... except giving him Cyke's card.  I think Cyke needs that one exclusively.  A 9 E or S OPD might be good though.

the way I understand it, once the shift is in play, playing the FT wouldn't affect it.  the attacks would still shift.  in fact, I believe you could still play the shift AFTER the FT as long as you're playing it offensively

if someone interprets this differently, shout it out! 

If this is the case, do you suppose having the FT 9 with the shift might be too strong? 

I personally don't think so.  he needs good specials to justify his 23 points.  these specials are good, but I don't think they're TOO good.  we'll see what testing reveals

his only great card as I see it, is the draw for ko'd characters.  I think he needs another one (ie the FT) to make him worth attacking.  otherwise, the shift doesn't really serve a purpose.  he does have a built in strategy of trying to get to power pack (the +2 FROG with the shift)