Palatinus' OverPower Forum

I think the accusations are getting out of hand here.

Knowing all the players involved, I think it's safe to say that Marcel wasn't cheating. A mistake was clearly made, as happens, but to call him out as a cheater (in anything other than a friendly ribbing) is completely unfair. I don't think he was being dishonest either. The game days can be long and constant concentration will lead to any number of mental hiccups. We have all done it -  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, so to speak....

We are not the NCAA or any other worldwide sports organization. We are a ragtag collective of people playing a dead card game. I think alienating one another with needless hate won't serve anyone. An error happened, it wasn't noticed until after the fact, we move on.

It behooves us all to be vigilant in our own plays as well as the plays of others.

As for the renege rules, we have already discussed options to fix the issue Hot Rod had at OP Cup. Standard Renege rules were followed in that case, but most of us agree that in this case it wasn't quite enough of a penalty, so a I believe an adjustment to the system will be in play for October.

I agree 100% with BBH.

Perhaps this is a conversation that is more suited offline, by those involved, instead of on this public forum designed to generate interest in the game we all seem to care greatly about. 

In my aforementioned message I stated "there are always bad apples".  If this wasn't proved almost immediately by our local DBAG DR DOUSCHE.  I am one to usually keep my cool, as I believe to be mature in my young age.  So I waited to respond, threats are always stronger when you troll from behind your keyboard.  At least skype me and make the threat. Lol. (Real talk). 

I will not respond to anything else from this guy.  All in the ACTIVE playing overpower community, knows I'm a stand up person and have high moral standards.   

I have already personally messaged several people in regards to this issue. 

It saddens me, because we make these videos to help people learn and to promote the game.  It seems they are being used to comb over and ridicule peoples plays.  I just hope people still want to be on camera at the championships. 

If anyone has further issues, please message me personally.

Marcel

Is there a list of decks that were used at the tournament somewhere? I'm not trying to knock anyone, I just find it interesting that a Spawn deck with no EE and Any Heroes was able to go undefeated over a pretty large (for a tournament) sample size. Were there no H4H decks in attendance?

Great video coverage as always.

ladies and gentlemen, in this corner, from Toronto/Ontario/Canada, sean 'the hammer' valentine!

out of curiosity, what is the issue hot rod brought up about a different reneg.  I think I have an idea, but it seems to be a hot topic

@ Onslaught: There's a list somewhere, I think Jack has it. I remember a sheet going around so that everyone could note their teams and battlesites.


@ Breadman: Hot Rod had a situation where after venturing, the opponent conceded before the battle and was revealed to have a dead card in his hand that should have been discarded.

Because the round had already been conceded, the renege didn't make a difference. But Hot Rod would have ventured an additional card had be known the other player was one card less.

In the end, Hot Rod lost that match by the one card he didn't venture because it went to time.

Unfortunately, that's why reneges should be an automatic game loss (and if it was intentional, a disqualification). Looking back on OP tournaments, I only saw people cheating a handful of times and it was usually in pretty basic ways (like keeping a dupe, using an HQ during battle, and playing the duped card from hand after the HQ so that they could claim it was drawn in the middle of the turn). Since I was youngish, I am sure there were a lot of situations where someone did something insidious that looked like an honest mistake and I just let it slide. In retrospect, it is insanely easy to gain dishonest advantages due to the nature of venturing/conceding.

Not that I'm saying anyone that still plays the game would even care to attempt something like this, but Hot Rod's situation shows that even accidental reneges are completely game warping.

I proposed a rule change a while back that wasn't as harsh as an auto-loss, but was still quite devastating

after the ventured cards are moved, each discovered reneg causes the at fault player to move an additional mission down, and the other player an additional card up.  that way, the penalty is severe enough to discourage cheating

ex: hideout discovered event is played (no tw).  opponent concedes before battle, but has 2 teamworks in hand.  after we move the ventured cards, I get to move 2 more up (1 from defeated to completed, or 2 missions up 1 level), and opponent must move 2 more down

http://overpower.ca/wiki/OP_Cup_2014

I don't have the pairings yet, been extremely busy.

For reneges, BBH and I were discussing it and we're looking at letting the 'victim' of the bad play win the venture and also move a bonus card up 1 pile. The offender loses the venture but with no other penalty. We normally don't see reneges happening in our tournaments so we don't have a formal ruling outlined minus the automatic win/loss of the battle.

I would support the idea of the winner of a battle getting an additional venture for each illegal card in the opponents hand.  That seems right to me.

As for Marcel, I would certainly hope and expect that he would not be willing to knowingly cheat.  That being said, after knowing this guy for 17 years now, I am certain that he is not dumb enough to blatantly cheap on camera.

Hope that helps and I hope to see you all at the OP Championship!

Phil Keffer

Seeing as I was on the receiving end of one of these "mistakes," I'll take that to mean I'm one of those without sin.

Drdeath elaborated my thoughts on this quite well: there is simply no penalty for this type of play.  Constantly pushing your opponent to catch these "mistakes" is ridiculous, and has no place among friends.  The example given with the A-Next while Rage is in play is perfect.  Where have we ever seen someone have a renege called for such a play?  The answer is: never.

The fact that someone "innocently mistook" so badly, yet didn't have the integrity to police themselves troubles me deeply.  Doug Simms had the right of it in his match vs Sean at the last Peach Bridge tournament.  He nobly conceded the match to Sean for his game defining mistake.

Enforcement of rules for such a game defining renege means nothing.  The rules must be adequate first, as was shown in my case, they currently are not.

Round 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnt0rDsCHcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCR0yr7qYsA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6x0y6uvgJ4

Round 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6mJluZ8aL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnEou978oI

Round 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObKScAwDACs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcsM-pucuKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TwdWvKExTE

Round 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42oDak2hSt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2g3EmLXoVA

Quote from: Jack on September 18, 2014, 11:57:10 PM
Round 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnt0rDsCHcg

i find it funny larry and mike forgot about the event that is still in play at 34:00

To reply to Marcel's point about people only watching these videos to critique peoples play. Well, we are watching the videos for entertainment, but its really easy to notice when someone makes a misplay, that's the only reason we bring it up.

As for Jack's ruling about reneges. I honestly dont think its strong enough. What if someone had like 4 discards, but instead reneged to keep 8 cards in hand. They are going to concede and loose the battle anyway, but if your opponent saw you discard 4 they would always bet 3 or 4 more missions than they would normally. So in that case you only gain 1 mission its not strong enough. I say no mercy on reneges, and propose that you lose the game for any reneges. But a stipulation to leave it up to the guy who caught the reneg to be able to say "oh it wasent a big deal, ill just take this battle win and my +1 instead of making this guy forfeit the game". An  honorable way. If that makes any sense.

This post is getting too serious, lets lighten up the mood. Who's in for some overpower jokes? I got a few....

Q: What would the leader of the KKK call Marcel Lojet?
A: A Renegger (sorry if that offends anyone, its a joke. Marcel is asking for it anyway with his offensive name he chose on this board)

Q: If Marcel and Jack started a business thats goal was to track down stolen cars, what would they name it?
A: Lojack

Q: If Dr.Death was a real doctor, what operation would he mostly perform?
A: Doushing, obviously

I think that lightened the mood, Anyone got anymore?