Underrated Intellect characters

[Bios]

Checking OP deck program I found there are only 37 characters with an Intellect rating of 7 or higher. That's almost half of the characters with high Fighting or Energy ratings, excluding 3 grid characters (wich can bring even more options to build non-intellect decks).

I think that, in fact, there are just too many characters with underrated Intellect ratings. It seems that its much more easier to rate a characters who knows some karate or can generate some sparks. Some examples of characters who should or at least could be rated as 7 intellect (with some pastes from wikipedia):

* Apocalypse (6i) – He has a 5,000 years experience, manipulated many civilizations throughout history and was able to use alien technology to enhance himself. He also created Mister Sinister and the horsemen of Apocalypse. In the future, Apocalypse has conquered and ruled the world.

* Blue Beetle (5i) – Guy Gardner claims that BB was smarter than Batman, "although nobody ever noticed! He invented and built his personal air-craft, The Bug. He created numerous gadgets, including his BB gun, wich can blind with a flash of light, or knock with a compressed air blast. He also created a power armor suit for Booster Gold. The suit contained a fully functioning artificial arm and also provided life-support for Booster.

* Curse (6i) - He replaced his mutilated arm and eye with cybernetic technology. Later he combined cybernetics with demonic parts He also created numerous minions in the form of twisted humanoid creatures born of human and demon flesh and mixed with cybernetic enhancements. Once he captured and began to dissect Spawn in an attempt to understand every secret that lay within him. His symbiote has been forcibly removed and severed from his neural pathways and placed in a containment tube.

* Green Goblin (6i) – He is Norman Osborn. Need to say more?

* Hulk (6i) – By giving him a 6i, we can assume the character card represents his Banner persona, one of the greatest minds in Marvel Universe.

* Hydra (5i) – What's Hydra anyway? A criminal organization dedicated to the achievement of world domination, with a technology level as highly advanced as that of any on Earth. Their roster had many genius like Baron von Strucker, Red Skull, Mentallo, the Fixer and they created A.I.M and M.O.D.O.K.

* Kingpin (6i) – Fisk has no super-powers, even though he was able to take control and rule criminal underground due to his strategic mind and tactics. Kingpin is also a master manipulator, occasionally going so far as to lead superheroes into taking down criminal rivals that pose a threat to his position.

* Mandarin (5i) – Nevermind the "story of my life" published in Invincible Iron Man Annual #1. It contradicts every word from the Mandarin's mythos. The Mandarin is one of Marvel's Earth's greatest scientific geniuses, and highly skilled in various sciences. Not only has he made himself into an expert authority on alien Makluuan science, but he has also built upon this knowledge by making further discoveries based upon it. The Mandarin is a brilliant and brutal tactician and a gifted strategist.

* Morbius  (5i) - Michael Morbius is a Nobel Prize-winning who possesses a gifted intellect, and is an expert biochemist and neuroradiologist with a Ph.D. in biochemistry. He attempted to cure himself of a rare blood disease with an experimental treatment and became a Vampire instead. Morbius and the Legion of Monsters reconstruct the Punisher as a Frankenstein monster. Working at Horizon Labs, he assisted in preparing the cure to the spider-powers virus from Spider-Island arc.

* Mysterio  (6i) – A Special effects expert and master illusionist. He is able to obstruct spider-sense with gas and destroy Spider-Man's web with chemicals. He was able to fake his own death and was hired by Norman Osborn to fake his son Harry's death.  Mysterio developed an elaborate plot to drive Daredevil insane using a special designed drug. Daredevil was nearly manipulated into killing an innocent baby (falsely accused of being the antichrist), Karen Page was convinced that she was suffering from HIV and Foggy Nelson was framed for murder after cheating on his current lover.

* Psycho-Man (6i) – A genius-level cientist who leads a technocracy by influencing people's emotions. He built a powered armor and a emotion-controlling device called the "Control-Box". Being a microscopic being, Psycho-Man uses and remotely controls advanced body armor (with varying abilities) when appearing on Earth. Psycho-Man once used an android based on Hate-Monger to incite hatred amongst the population. During the Fear Itself storyline, he takes advantage of the fear and chaos caused the Serpent and the Worthy by plotting to use Man-Thing as the ultimate fear bomb for Earth and other worlds. Psycho-Man brings an alternate version of the Fantastic Four from another dimension and brainwashes them into fighting the Fearsome Four.

*Steel (4i) - Doctor John Henry Irons was a brilliant weapons engineer, who created Steel's powered armor to fight crime. He was recruited as a member of the Justice League, due to Batman's concern that the League was already top-heavy in brawn and required more thinkers. He also helped Superman to build a new Fortress of Solitude. He unintentionally usurped the position of Emil Hamilton Superman's technology guru. He worked with a group of technical geniuses to create a new body for Red Tornado.

* Vision (6i) – Not using comic background this time. His specials say it all: Analytical Expert, Calculated Attack, Compute Victory.

[Demacus]

With the exception of Curse (cause I didn't stick with Spawn's comics long enough to be introduced to that character) I must agree on all counts of these folks getting shafted in their strongest suit, a lot of which, like Kingpin, would see more play if their Intellect stat were acurately reflected.  Sure everyone knows that Mr. Fantastic and Dr. Doom are 2 of the greatest minds in Marvel's universe, but the others listed here are certainly no slouches, minimums of 7 easy.  Let's not forget that when Sue Richards was giving birth to Valeria and having complications due to the dormant (?) gamma rays that also gave her her powers, who did Reed turn to for assistance?  Dr. Otto Octavius, a.k.a Dr. Octopus. Granted he was given a 7 Int, but when a man who's intellect is unparalleled seeks assistance, why would he seek assistance from a man with less intelligence then himself.  Dr Oct should be an 8 if he truely is viewed as an equal to Mr. Fantastic.

Apoc's long life and experiences rate a near omnipotent potential and is also deserving of an 8.

Blue Beetle should at least be a 7 like Batman, though I'm a firm believer that Batman should have been a 1-7-4-8 in the first place.

Green Goblin, I remember actually being disappointed when I finally pulled him out of a pack and saw that he didn't have a 7 Int.

Hulk strangely enough, I'm fine with his 6.  There were several "variations" of the Hulk over the years with different levels of intelligence, and I kind of look at his I.Q. hero as a kind of averaging of most of them.  A Hulk Variant that was designed specifically around his Bruce Banner persona would be cool and well deserving of a 7 or 8, but only if he lost it in his Strength.  I would also love to see a Planet Hulk varient, which would severely increase his fighting stat, as well.

Hydra, I have to agree are deserving of at least a 7. Mostly for the points in Bios' thread. 

Kingpin may not be a master inventor or scientific genious, but criminal savvy of his calibur is worthy of a lvl 8 Int easy.

Mandarin I had no real knowledge of.  I had no idea he was a scientist and was happy with his stats, but in this new light he should be in the 6-7 range, easy.

I must agree that Morbius should note at least a 6 Int.  I was unaware that being an Biochemist was as common as his stats would seem to imply, and our other, easily recognized Biochemist (even if you don't use Biochemist) rated at least a 7...  Beast.

Mysterio I felt was fine with his 6 Int.  I was unaware of his manipulations, what with faking his own and Harry Osborn's deaths, nor was I aware of how screwed with Daredevil, Karen Page or Foggy Nelson, so I can see how a 7 might be in order.

Psycho-man, based on what I gleaned from the character I was reading in his specials, seems to have been short a point in his Int as well.  Based on the info Bios has provided, I must agree at least a 7 should be on his card in the Int spot.

Steel was the most heavily shafted, I felt, because of exactly what Bios has written there.  He wasn't supposed to be a clone of Superman, simply a brilliant man who took an opportunity to honor his fallen hero by stepping into the void left by his demise, but not by BEING Superman.  By being himself, with his genius, he was able to CREATE a man capable of assisting with the responsibilities that everyone else laid on Superman, and now noone was stepping up to cover.  If any man with average intelligence could do what he accomplished, why is Superman so damned special?  Lex would have an army of Supermen at his disposal with his genius and his resources, all of which would be better then the actual Superman, cause Lex could do make them with no weaknesses.  Steel obviously had something far more then your average-intelligenced man going on for him to do what he did, and his 4 is just plain insulting.

Vision....  lol  well he IS a computer.  Should be on par with Cerebro.  'nuff said.

[gameplan.exe]

Pretty much agree with all of these going up to a 7, or some up to 8, except probably Mysterio. Seems like he was aptly put at 6.

I also love the idea listed above about making a Hulk: Bruce Banner variant. Something like 2-3-4-7?

Also, another character who should have had higher intellect: Azrael!! Maybe I don't have all of the facts, but I was under the impression he was some kind of genius as well. Didn't he hack into Batman's computer system? Wasn't he also being tutored to take over for Batman? Seems like he easily could've had a 6i...

[Demacus]

I would think he would rate at least a 5-7I.  I seem to recall him being fairly intelligent as well.  What about Bane?  I love the 666 thing they were hinting at with him, but this is the man who out smarted the Batman, wearing him down and breaking him, a feat no other villain was able to accomplish.  How is that not deserving of an Int stat at LEAST equal to the man he brought low?

[Nostalgic]

Good post. Has anyone looked at the stats of the characters released in each set to see if they were trying to balance the number of characters with 7s or 8s in each catagory? It makes me think of the post about how bad Thor's stats and picture were in the first set. I can think of Doom, Ironman, Spiderman, and Venom off the top of my head as the characters that had a 7 and two 6s for their stat-3 cards. Perhaps the limit was on purpose.  Probably not. Anyway, Thor's stat 3 could have easily been a 6-4-7 at least. I only left the energy at a 6 because of the special that lets him boost it to an 8. It must have served some purpose in the creators minds. 

[Jesse]

I agree with almost every character on that list.  But I would also have to add in Nightwing with an increased intellect of 7 or possibly 8 (depending on the story arc). Dick Grayson was IMO the best Robin to date. He was smart enough to be the first Robin and hold his own with Batman when it came to building gadgets, he helped start the titans, was a pivotel force in the outsiders and seriously if Robin can have a 7 - why not Nightwing 

Anyway, Thor's stat 3 could have easily been a 6-4-7 at least. I only left the energy at a 6 because of the special that lets him boost it to an 8. It must have served some purpose in the creators minds. 

Whenever I build a deck with Thor I often look at this card (when using the IQ) and think - "Seriously, what a waste." 

* Vision (6i) – Not using comic background this time. His specials say it all: Analytical Expert, Calculated Attack, Compute Victory.

The only justification you need for Vision to get a 7 or an 8 should be simply put - he is a fricken robot 

[gameplan.exe]

I agree with almost every character on that list.  But I would also have to add in Nightwing with an increased intellect of 7 or possibly 8 (depending on the story arc). Dick Grayson was IMO the best Robin to date. He was smart enough to be the first Robin and hold his own with Batman when it came to building gadgets, he helped start the titans, was a pivotel force in the outsiders and seriously if Robin can have a 7 - why not Nightwing 

Except, didn't Batman pretty explicitly say that Drake was smarter than Grayson...?

[Jesse]

I agree with almost every character on that list.  But I would also have to add in Nightwing with an increased intellect of 7 or possibly 8 (depending on the story arc). Dick Grayson was IMO the best Robin to date. He was smart enough to be the first Robin and hold his own with Batman when it came to building gadgets, he helped start the titans, was a pivotel force in the outsiders and seriously if Robin can have a 7 - why not Nightwing 

Except, didn't Batman pretty explicitly say that Drake was smarter than Grayson...?

Yes and No.  Depends entirely on the story arc. They are a ton of references to Drake being smarter but there are equally as many references to Grayson being smarter as well. It's all in who the author is at the time and whether its a batman, robin, batman/robin or nightwing book. No massive line of continuity with that thought. And since I am a Nightwing fan I go with the latter  But dont take my comment as no respect for Drake - I think he has held his own as Robin in a supreme way enough that a lot of people don't even consider Grayson in the context of Robin.

[gameplan.exe]

Yes and No.  Depends entirely on the story arc. They are a ton of references to Drake being smarter but there are equally as many references to Grayson being smarter as well. It's all in who the author is at the time and whether its a batman, robin, batman/robin or nightwing book. No massive line of continuity with that thought. And since I am a Nightwing fan I go with the latter  But dont take my comment as no respect for Drake - I think he has held his own as Robin in a supreme way enough that a lot of people don't even consider Grayson in the context of Robin.

I haven't read a lot of Batman books, so maybe I've only seen the Drake-fanboy-writer's versions   

[Jesse]

Yes and No.  Depends entirely on the story arc. They are a ton of references to Drake being smarter but there are equally as many references to Grayson being smarter as well. It's all in who the author is at the time and whether its a batman, robin, batman/robin or nightwing book. No massive line of continuity with that thought. And since I am a Nightwing fan I go with the latter  But dont take my comment as no respect for Drake - I think he has held his own as Robin in a supreme way enough that a lot of people don't even consider Grayson in the context of Robin.

I haven't read a lot of Batman books, so maybe I've only seen the Drake-fanboy-writer's versions   

Not necessarily, I used to read a ton of Batman, Robin and Nightwing books. It does literally depend on the writer, but sometimes its the story as well. I've read some (Nightwing Issues) where they make Grayson smarter/better but I've also read the opposite with Drake being smarter/better but the same goes for issues of Batman or Robin. Now, I have only read those titles off and on since Battle for the Cowl so things could be entirely different now.

[Bios]

Has anyone looked at the stats of the characters released in each set to see if they were trying to balance the number of characters with 7s or 8s in each catagory?

They were only balancing level 8 characters. The table bellow shows how many characters (7 and 8 ) are in each power type:



There is just a matter of too many underrated characters with intellect grids. They just didn't pay attention to it.

There is a slight difference between energy and fighting, but energy has more options because it has many low cost level 8s (3 after IQ plus 3 with 3 grid), while Fighting has only 1 (Bullseye, while 3 grid F characters are not cheap).

Fighting and Energy characters also have the best defensive special mix. But once again energy has advantages, with 2 low cost characters with negate (Scarlet Witch and Holocaust), while the only level 7 Fighting with negate has a 21 point sum grid. Thats another reason why X-Babies became a key staple in so many decks, there aren't many options!

Energy also has X-Man and Sentinels, while Spawn fits energy decks better. And if it wasn't enough, Marvels brought the brilliant idea of making the only level 8 character who can play team avoids from reserve, an energy character of course! (Dr. Strange)

[gameplan.exe]

Has anyone looked at the stats of the characters released in each set to see if they were trying to balance the number of characters with 7s or 8s in each catagory?

They were only balancing level 8 characters. The table bellow shows how many characters (7 and 8 ) are in each power type:



There is just a matter of too many underrated characters with intellect grids. They just didn't pay attention to it.

There is a slight difference between energy and fighting, but energy has more options because it has many low cost level 8s (3 after IQ plus 3 with 3 grid), while Fighting has only 1 (Bullseye, while 3 grid F characters are not cheap).

Fighting and Energy characters also have the best defensive special mix. But once again energy has advantages, with 2 low cost characters with negate (Scarlet Witch and Holocaust), while the only level 7 Fighting with negate has a 21 point sum grid. Thats another reason why X-Babies became a key staple in so many decks, there aren't many options!

Energy also has X-Man and Sentinels, while Spawn fits energy decks better. And if it wasn't enough, Marvels brought the brilliant idea of making the only level 8 character who can play team avoids from reserve, an energy character of course! (Dr. Strange)

Also, don't forget The Marvels brought an EE-defense for Specials and gave it to... a lv.8 Energy Character!! What's that you say? They gave it to an expensive max-8? That's okay, because there's a cheap off-set version who's still a lv.7, of the same suit, that balances the 21!! Yay!!
...
SMH

[Demacus]

Also, if you look at the original OP set, there were 2 characters each with an 8 stat, adding a 3rd 8 stat of each in Powersurge, which rolled into I.Q. with almost exactly the same characters, while adding 3 lvl 8 Int characters, Dr. Doom, Mr. Fantastic and Mr. Sinister.

DC set, which released right before I.Q. released only 1 lvl 8 stat character of each type.  Had they followed the example of OP's original set, there should have been 2 of each, and Superman, Batman and 2 others might not have gotten the crappy stats they did. 

Since the 8F in the set went to the only hero with an 8, I would give the other 8F to Ra's Al Ghul, and the other 8 Energy would have to go to a hero, though I'm not sure which, since I believe that Batman and Superman should have held the 8s in Int and Str, respectively, unless there is a better hero choice for the 8 Str.  Also, don't forget that DC brought the Hero/Villain codes to the game, and any villain team could easily pack more power card firepower since 3 of the 4 8's they released were villains.

Also note, in OP original set there were 4 characters with 19pt grids.  When I.Q. dropped, how many 23 point characters were there? Apoc, Cable, Thor...  DC's highest point cost character was 21.  You can't tell me that the strongest character in DC doesn't hold a flame to some of the less then incredible characters in Marvel.

All I'm saying is if stats were designed with balance in mind, DC didn't get that memo.

[Palatinus]

I've thought a lot about the stats in the past and have tried to come up with reasonable ways to interpret character ability with Overpower card stats.  While I don't necessarily disagree with some of the picks being deserving of higher intellect, and the statistics on how few intellect 7's there are cannot be argued with, I would just like to say that being smart and using one's intellect in a fight are two different things.

Now, most, if not all the examples given seem to follow this line of logic, but I would like to point out one example of where I think there is a difference.  Morbius.  He is a capable scientist but that doesn't really come into play in how he fights.  He uses his Vampire enhanced speed and strength to overcome his adversaries.

In that regard, looking at Peter Parker, he's smart but not the smartest fighter.  Yes, he invented some nice stuff to help him, but more or less stopped there.  If you compare him to Scarlet Spider, Scarlet Spider never stopped trying to improve his gadgets and often won against stronger opponents through cleverness and reason.  I'm not saying Spider-man hasn't done these things, but Scarlet Spider has done it better.  My point in comparing these two is because they are genetic duplicates so theoretically possess the same intelligence while one applies it to battle better.

This line of thinking might also be applied to the Hulk/Bruce Banner.  As smart as Bruce is, how well does that translate into fighting?  I'd also actually question Mr. Fantastic's 8 intellect.  Compare him to Lex Luthor who uses every ounce of his intellect to fight against a being like Superman and come out on top at times.  As smart as Mr. Fantastic is, does all of that come out in how he defeats his foes most of the time?  If we look at the stats as how the characters behave the majority of the time and their specials as additional abilities or great moments, I'd see Reed with a lower intellect rating with some 8I special maybe.

This is all just off the top of my head right now, but I'm hoping the gist of what I mean has gotten across.

[Jesse]

Also note, in OP original set there were 4 characters with 19pt grids.  When I.Q. dropped, how many 23 point characters were there? Apoc, Cable, Thor...  DC's highest point cost character was 21.  You can't tell me that the strongest character in DC doesn't hold a flame to some of the less then incredible characters in Marvel.

All I'm saying is if stats were designed with balance in mind, DC didn't get that memo.

This is typically how I have noticed the Marvel/DC game mechanics to be in their collectible gaming formats. One example is when I used to play Heroclix, it was the exact same way: with each new set of miniatures that was released, Marvel became more and more powerful and destructive and DC went for balance and tactics. The only thing you ever heard on those release dates were comments and complaints about how powerful marvel characters were and how dc is lacking...etc etc.