Palatinus' OverPower Forum

I got my cards today. They look and feel like the real thing lol.

Nice!

i might have to get 2 sets rather than 1 if i want to play with the new rules and have more than one deck....

Garose, thanks for the feedback. Which cards did you like in particular? What were your thoughts on the box/instruction manual?

CoS, I has definitely set one aside for you in this batch, but not quite sure if I will still have another one available. I'll certainly get back to you shortly though!

How many sets will you be able to have made, Mr. PowerBalance?  Is this a train that we need to hop on right now, or should I rush my orders before it's too late???

TheTrooper27, no no, there will be enough when the batch after the next comes in in 2 weeks time. All I'm saying is if you want them earlier, then you can get them in this next batch which is coming on Friday (although someone has snatched up the last two - you know who you are!). There will be plenty more in 2 weeks time, but just means you'll have to wait a little longer to get them.

Cool... I need a little more time to round up some $$. Between the Buffalo Trip and the Carrie Underwood tickets I got for my girlfriend, dough is running low.

Quote from: PowerBalance on February 19, 2013, 04:10:59 PM
Garose, thanks for the feedback. Which cards did you like in particular? What were your thoughts on the box/instruction manual?

The artwork on the character cards is brilliant and looks like they were done by pros. I always love seeing good custom cards especially the character ones.

The crib box is a nice touch and makes the whole package feel like they were actually produced by Marvel.

I like the inclusion of the accidental inserts that were not reprinted in the X-Men OP set. I was half expecting them to be a bit "fuzzy". Which would have been a bit of a letdown.

In truth I can't fault the cards or the chosen artwork at all. Although I would have liked two of each card without buying an additional set and ending up with additional OPDs and Character cards. Maybe the additional cards could be added to the next set of cards.

I don't get to play OP so I don't think I am in a position to comment on the PB rules. I don't see any harm in creating new or tweaked rules provided that the original rules can still be applied to the new cards.

I would be happy to help out looking for images, naming special cards or suggesting cards to include for the next set.

G.

Quote from: thetrooper27 on February 20, 2013, 08:02:56 AM
Cool... I need a little more time to round up some $$. Between the Buffalo Trip and the Carrie Underwood tickets I got for my girlfriend, dough is running low.

you don't gotta lie to kick it; we know who's really wantin' to see Carrie 

Quote from: ncannelora on February 20, 2013, 11:07:40 AM

Quote from: thetrooper27 on February 20, 2013, 08:02:56 AM
Cool... I need a little more time to round up some $$. Between the Buffalo Trip and the Carrie Underwood tickets I got for my girlfriend, dough is running low.

you don't gotta lie to kick it; we know who's really wantin' to see Carrie 

LOL exactly what I thought when I read it. Now I got to go set my DVR to record the Oscars...for my girlfiend.

Garose, thanks for the detailed review. Much appreciated. Also, that's great that you would be interested in helping out with the next revision of Power Balance, even if only for the artwork side of things. It can be difficult to find high enough quality artwork and in the same style as the official cards, so any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

TheTrooper27, ha ha, yes, money always gets a little more tight when you have a partner! No rush - just let me know when you want your sets, and I'll be happy to accomodate. Obviously, I do have a finite supply, but there should be enough to go round!

so, I've now thoroughly read through this revision. while I can't say for sure, until I get my sets and play it out, I'm feeling very conflicted! LOL

Positive Impressions*
• Multipower Power card restriction, requiring it playable in all types
• Multipower Power card now able to be used as needed type for specific uses (e.g. w/AE Specials)
• New KO standards for Battlesites

Negative Impressions*
• Sum Deck penalty based on the inclusion of Any-Power cards.
• Homebases acting as Battlesites when using Any Hero cards.
• Homebases disallowed from using variant character cards.
• Homebases having re-written Inherent Abilities.

Undecided Impressions*
• New valuation of Characters.
• Follow-up attacks made together.

*Impressions subject to change with no notice 

Ncannelora, awesome. Thanks for posting your impressions - I can see you've got your analytical hat on!

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In response to your negative impressions, hopefully I can clarify things to help explain the "why" behind the rule changes:

1) Sum Deck penalty based on the inclusion of Any-Power cards - The beauty of Any-Power cards not being OPDs is that you can pretty much put ANY team of characters you want together. Previously, there needed to be some correlation between the Power Grids of your selected characters, sharing useable cards for defense. This would limit what Specials could be included in your deck.

Sure, it's great that Any-Power cards actually are a lot more useful now because of the rule change, but this opens up a big imbalance issue. You could just put all the characters with the most powerful specials together, making a monstrously overpowered team. The goal of Power Balance was to bring balance, and this would definitely not be balanced at all. There had to be some kind of trade off, well, more than simply not being able to use MultiPower cards and the inherent reduction of Spectrum ability by using Any-Power cards.

I had the statistician look over the combinations and permutations of shared usable cards when using Any-Power cards vs cards that require specific Power Type ratings to use, and it was calculated that approximately 76 (+/-1.5 point value for 1 standard deviation) was appropriate. (I can't remember the exact numbers honestly.) Again, statistics don't equate to real gameplay, which is why thorough playtesting would be required to verify these numbers.

2) Homebases acting as Battlesites when using Any Hero cards - I think I know what you meant, but just to clarify - the homebase itself doesn't act as a Battlesite, but you need a separate Battlesite (Marvel Manhattan, Marvel Universe, Team OverPower) to use the Any Hero cards. The reasoning for this was two-fold: a) Battlesites are now easier to K.O., so it's easier to stop people playing Activators than Any Hero cards, b) Any-Hero cards are already so powerful, especially with Power Leech and DoW, and the disadvantage that Activators get from easier K.O. would create imbalance.

Remember back in the day, the official Legion back in the day had to introduce errata just to bring Power Leech back to a useable state. Even now there are so many posts on this forum figuring out ways to balance DoW. Imagine just K.O.ing the Battlesite to stop DoW and Power Leech? Now attacking the Battlesite actually has a purpose! Can be game-changing - and this could bring that extra dimension to OverPower.

3) Homebases disallowed from using variant character cards / Homebases having re-written Inherent Abilities - This was only because some of the combinations you could pick could be far too powerful under the new system.

Admittedly, this is probably the area of Power Balance that has been least thought-out. Everything else was calculated like crazy, taking into account countless permutations and combinations, crunching heaps of numbers to generate the final outcome. This part was just a simple comparison of Point Values of homebases to normal teams, so I have to say this could be an area that still needs refinement. This would require a fair bit of playtesting to see. I couldn't keep the statistician on board any longer, as I had already reached my budget with him. If people could playtest this in detail, we could fine tune this ourselves without the help of a statistician!
-----

Understandably, people will feel initially very conflicted when changes are introduced. Remember the first time they introduced Event cards? It was like "What? This isn't OverPower anymore!". Then shortly after, all of a sudden, it felt like they re-invented the whole game with IQ having a fourth stat. Then the game changed MASSIVELY when they introduced the location cards, having a new thing/mechanic to learn. Each of those changes were hugely game-changing and took time to get used to. The changes introduced in Power Balance are actually very minor in comparison to the official expansions released.

In any case, those who are game enough to try the new system out (which it seems a lot of you are!!), let me know. Seemingly, everyone here is very methodical and analytical - it shouldn't be a great challenge to rectify balance issues as a collective group!

well, I should note that the Any-Power thing only bugs me a little. it's easy to imagine that I'd get used to it just like I got used to the different Sum Deck totals allowed for level16 decks at 76, level 15 decks at 72, and on down. it IS very appealing to get a blended team together, since that's how the Xmen are built 

for the Any-Hero-Battlesite, here's my main issue:
when using AnyHero cards, having Team Overpower as a Homebase is almost an absolute MUST, because getting the wrong Any Hero too soon is almost worse than not getting it at all (like getting the BQ in hand1, UGH!)... so, would I be using Team Overpower as a Homebase, and then just throwing Marvel Universe up front as a Battlesite, ONLY to give my opponent a target, then? or, would Team Overpower be acting as BOTH Battlesite and Homebase?

as for the variants issue, it particularly bothers me with XWorld, where the characters' variants are THE reason for the Homebase. same with Storm being on the Morlock Tunnels site (pro'ly others, too). also, there was a very long stretch where Angel retained much of his Death abilities while enlisted with the Xmen, so why shouldn't he be able to be used in the Danger Room? you know?

Ncannelora,

QuoteI be using Team Overpower as a Homebase, and then just throwing Marvel Universe up front as a Battlesite, ONLY to give my opponent a target, then?

Yep, you're absolutely correct. If Marvel Universe got K.O.'d, then you could no longer play any "Any Hero/Character" cards.

Since it is so much easier to stop Activator cards from being played now that Battlesites are easier to K.O., "Any Hero/Character" cards get a bigger advantage, and this was a way to balance it. Finally, there is always the complaint that DoW is too powerful against Activators, so this was another method to try and stop it without having to introduce a new custom card or introducing erratas.

Quoteas for the variants issue, it particularly bothers me with XWorld, where the characters' variants are THE reason for the Homebase. same with Storm being on the Morlock Tunnels site (pro'ly others, too). also, there was a very long stretch where Angel retained much of his Death abilities while enlisted with the Xmen, so why shouldn't he be able to be used in the Danger Room? you know?

Regarding the variants thing, you make really good solid points actually. Which is why I always welcome people's thoughts on things. Could I perhaps request your assistance to help balance the Homebases? I think your knowledge could help immensely in this department.

Would anyone else be able to assist here as well?

Quote from: ncannelora on February 20, 2013, 08:31:58 PM
so, I've now thoroughly read through this revision. while I can't say for sure, until I get my sets and play it out, I'm feeling very conflicted! LOL

Positive Impressions*
• Multipower Power card restriction, requiring it playable in all types

not a fan of that
colossus and many others agree with me